Free time while pursuing my undergraduate degree

[whatamievendoing]

TL;DR Summary: How much free time would I have in my first year of college with a major in mechanical engineering?

I would like to convert a van to live out of while in college (provided I do not get a full ride). I would have to live on campus my first year and considering I have 2 years to save enough money to convert it, I would build it that year, potentially at my grandmothers during my spare time. I was wondering if this would be feasible with the workload I would adopt

 

[CrysPhys]

None of us here have a clue what workload you are planning to adopt ... or how rigorous a school you will be attending.

 

[berkeman]

I was wondering if this would be feasible with the workload I would adopt

As one datapoint, in my first year of EE undergrad at UC Davis, I studied about 40 hours per week outside of classes. YMMV

 

[fresh_42]

Here is what Karen E. Smith (Keeler Professor of Mathematics at the University of Michigan) has to say:

Also, remember to take care of yourself. Take one day a week off work. Sleep well and exercise. Have a social life.

https://www.ams.org/publications/journals/notices/201707/rnoti-p718.pdf

 

[Vanadium 50]

It is not clear to me that you can legally (and safely) live in a van. Colleges are not RV parks.

Also, the question "what is the minimum amount of time I need to spend studying" is usually not a sign of upcoming success.

 

[symbolipoint]

It is not clear to me that you can legally (and safely) live in a van. Colleges are not RV parks.

Also, the question "what is the minimum amount of time I need to spend studying" is usually not a sign of upcoming success.

Someone in the other related topic said the "10000 hours" was supposed to be practice with the availability of supervision. When a person, a student, studies and practices exercises, best to keep track of time AFTER a bunch of time was spent. One can schedule some time during this or just before but really, do the study, do the practice, and do not put emphasis on the amount of time. The amount and distribution of time can come about naturally on its own.

I feel some disagreement when I read something like, "this course is designed to be completed in 60 hours of instruction". A motivated student may need that much or more for the practice exercises. A capable but mediocre intellect student may need that much time or more for the practice exercises.



edit: small edit, one word added

 

[WWGD]

You may still do a good job living in a van...down by the river.

 

[Choppy]

I agree, this is a difficult question to answer. What we know is that first year engineering programs for full time students tend to be quite demanding in terms of time management. We also know that there are lots of examples of engineering students who also hold part time jobs, volunteer, participate in student activities/clubs, and have family obligations.

Generally speaking, a lot will come down to time management. Not only will you be studying full time, but you'll need to take care of yourself, exercise, sleep, eat properly, socialize, and balance out any other obligations you have. Taking on a major project can be done. And it has benefits. Down the road, engineering employers do tend to have an interest not only in what you've studied, but also what major projects you've had success with. But of course big projects also have opportunity costs.

It might be worth your time to sit down and figure out, if you take all of that time you'd be spending on this project and put that into a part-time job, estimate your wages, taxes, etc. and see how much money you could otherwise earn. Over the year or so this would take, you could use that money to offset rent costs down the road. And on your CV, when it comes time to apply for career-jobs, the previous experience section will have more in it, which may be more beneficial than having completed a van renovation project.

 

[CrysPhys]

When a person, a student, studies and practices exercises, best to keep track of time AFTER a bunch of time was spent. One can schedule some time during this or just before but really, do the study, do the practice, and do not put emphasis on the amount of time. The amount and distribution of time can come about naturally on its own.

Except ... with respect to most activities, time serves as a constraint. For a student, homework, exams, papers, and projects have due dates. And that's for one course; students typically take multiple courses each semester (or other school calendar period). Similarly, for a worker, tasks and projects have due dates; workers often have multiple tasks and projects per calendar period.

 

[WWGD]

I suggest, to the degree possible, sacrifice sleep the last.

 

[whatamievendoing]

None of us here have a clue what workload you are planning to adopt ... or how rigorous a school you will be attending.

Neither do I, as I have no clue what college will be like. I was going to apply to MIT or Stanford, but those are simply too expensive and competitive, hence why I would like to live out of a van to cut costs on room and board. I will most likely end up going to Clemson university and major in mechanical, and minor in aerospace. I am currently a sophomore in high school, and will take a job during my junior and senior years to fund the project. After the van is built, I would attempt to work a part time remote job while still studying. I would live roughly 15 minutes from campus.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Your plan of living out of a van is unrealistic to the point of being silly.

It's illegal in Palo Alto.
It's unsafe in Boston winters. You will freeze to death. It is also illegal, and finding parking is not trivial.

I also very much doubt you will save any money. You need to get this idea out of your head sooner rather than later so you can adopt a realistic plan.

 

[WWGD]

Neither do I, as I have no clue what college will be like. I was going to apply to MIT or Stanford, but those are simply too expensive and competitive, hence why I would like to live out of a van to cut costs on room and board. I will most likely end up going to Clemson university and major in mechanical, and minor in aerospace. I am currently a sophomore in high school, and will take a job during my junior and senior years to fund the project. After the van is built, I would attempt to work a part time remote job while still studying. I would live roughly 15 minutes from campus.

I suggest you take a reasonable load your first semester, test a plan of action and tweak if necessary, rather than starting with , e.g., 6 classes and a job. Good luck.

 

[whatamievendoing]

Your plan of living out of a van is unrealistic to the point of being silly.

It's illegal in Palo Alto.
It's unsafe in Boston winters. You will freeze to death. It is also illegal, and finding parking is not trivial.

I also very much doubt you will save any money. You need to get this idea out of your head sooner rather than later so you can adopt a realistic plan.

Clemson University is in Clemson, South Carolina. As far as I am concerned, living on family owned land is not illegal, and considering it is less than a 15 minute bike ride from campus, I think it would actually be a better idea than spending over 20 grand per year for 8 years, plus the cost of tuition. I do see your point as to how I would save up the money, however I could take out a loan if need be (already would be required for college). As for the whole freezing thing, I would invest into climate control, such as insulation and heating for the mediocre winters I would experience. I am a hard worker and am very capable of making and saving money, despite my inexperience.

 

[ohwilleke]

As an undergrad you can do anything you want, but you can't do everything you want.

You can remodel a van, but you can't also go to every home football game and frat party, participate in student government, be active in a local church, work 20 hours a week, and star in several student theater productions. You can do any one of these things, but you can't do all of them.

How well you are prepared matters a lot too. For example, if you have first year college calculus completed in high school and really mastered it, your life is going to go a lot more smoothly than it would if you were trying to learn calculus and calculus based physics at the same time as a freshman. First year college chemistry is also an intense weed out course that is extremely demanding and if it is on your schedule, it is going to require that you devote twice as much time to it as any other course if you didn't already take AP or IB chemistry or a college chemistry course at a local college with dual enrollment, during high school.

If you have a learning disability, everything is going to take longer, and you are going to have to spend time reaching out for help more often. If you have ADHD, you are going to be less efficient and more tempted to procrastinate by working on the van when you should be doing problem sets.

If you aren't trying to learn calculus while applying it in other subjects at the same time, and you aren't taking college chemistry without very sound high school preparation, and you don't have any personal barriers to doing academic work reasonably efficiently, then you are going to need to spend about 15-16 hours a week in class, and probably something more than 15 hours and less than 32 hours a week on homework, for a combined 30-48 hours a week of academic work. Somewhere in the middle of that range would be pretty typical.

If you need more than that many hours taking a regular full-time load of classes in college, and you don't have some sort of learning disability, you either weren't well enough prepared for your program, or you urgently need to get someone who help you learn how to study more efficiently and effectively. You need to get help if this happens in the first few weeks of your first semester, before you even get to midterms.

If you are learning calculus or chemistry for the first time as a freshman in an engineering program, or if you have a learning disability or similar barrier to studying with normal efficiency, you should try to take the lightest possible course load that you can in your freshman year and should limit your non-academic pursuits to the minimum that allows you to have social ties to your peers at college until you are comfortable that you can handle more. But you MUST build some social ties with your peers at college, or your feelings of isolation will undermine your academics and your ability to get help when you need it. It will also undermine your job search because you won't hear about opportunities that people with some sort of social network hear about.

This said, remodeling a van is a project that can help keep you grounded and sane if you are attracted to engineering because you like working with things on a hands on basis, especially in the first year or two when the curriculum is often more book focused and academic, before you get into the upper division engineering courses that often include at least some more hands on and project based classes. And, if you are a very intense introvert who can get overwhelmed by interacting with large numbers of new people you've never met every day, a project like that can give you respite and mental quiet away from all of them.

Seeing your van mod as a survival necessity to live, instead of as a fun project to tool around in during the summer or on vacations, however, is not the best approach.

If you are worried about finances: Don't! Take out student loans if you must. The cost of a living in a dorm isn't that high in the greater scheme of things even if the money seems daunting now. If you earn an engineering degree, you will have the lowest risk of post-graduation unemployment and among the highest starting salaries of any of your peers. Paying off another $40,000-$60,000 of a student loans that financed room and board in college after the first year won't be that big of a deal.

Don't fall for the common misconception that college is only about taking classes. This is what a lot of first generation college students think and it is incorrect. College is also a time to grow as a person, to meet people some of whom may end up being life long friends and colleagues, to learn how to be an independent adult, and sometimes even to meet a life partner (something that is much harder once your undergraduate days are over) or short of that to learn from the school of hard knocks what forming a serious relationship with someone is about. You are being socialized into a social class and a profession and developing "soft skills" that cause so many employers to prefer college graduates even in jobs where the specific things you learned in college aren't requirements to do the job. Living on campus for at least two or three years, and living away from home the whole time, dramatically improves what you get out of the college experience.

The lessons you learn from informally interacting with your roommates, dorm mates, cafeteria buddies, and/or frat or sorority siblings are at least a third of what you learn in college. And, they are invariably lessons you didn't know you needed to learn, and thus, wouldn't get any other way because you wouldn't seek them out and didn't even know they existed to learn.

So, don't skimp.

 

[gleem]

When @whatamievendoing said he would be saving 20,000 a year for room and board at Clemson I thought that was exorbitant also I went to their website and sure enough they charge nearly that at $19K and change. I then check out the average rent in Clemson SC and it is $581/month compared to the national average of $1536/month. Since one can feed himself reasonably well on $20/day or less one might expect to pay about $10k per year renting. After the first year if you can find a roommate(s) and split the rental cost you save more. Use the money to buy and refurbish a van toward your first year's expenses. You then might consider a part-time job if your situation permits it.

Edit: Going back to check costs at Clemson I could not find the website where I got the 19K figure for food and housing. Now I can only find about $13K with $8.2K for on-campus housing and $5K for food which is what you might pay for cooking yourself. Anyway $8.2K is still high compared to off-campus rental.

 

[ohwilleke]

I think it would actually be a better idea than spending over 20 grand per year for 8 years, plus the cost of tuition.

Why would you think it would take 8 years? Typically, an engineering student finishes undergrad in 4-5 years (the 5 year plan is normally because you can't get your prerequisites lined up to finish all classes for your major in four years or because you couldn't handle a full time course load and needed to reduce your course load by one course a semester to have enough time to perform well academically and have room to breathe).

8 years would be typical if you are getting a PhD in engineering, but if you do that, after you finish your undergraduate education, you often get a job as a teaching assistant or research assistant as part of your PhD program that pays you a modest salary and covers your tuition as well. And, engineering is not a profession where a graduate degree is necessary for career success.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I don't know what the details of the law are for South Carolina, but I am reasonably certain they have requirements for waste disposal even on your own land. You can't just dump a toilet out onto the yard - even if it is your yard.

You are going about this completely backwards - have you talked to any adult about this plan? Because the first thing you need to do is get into college. Clemson is not as competitive as MIT or Stanford, but it is still competitive. It doesn't matter if you can pay for it or not if you can't get in.

 

[whatamievendoing]

As an undergrad you can do anything you want, but you can't do everything you want.

You can remodel a van, but you can't also go to every home football game and frat party, participate in student government, be active in a local church, work 20 hours a week, and star in several student theater productions. You can do any one of these things, but you can't do all of them.

How well you are prepared matters a lot too. For example, if you have first year college calculus completed in high school and really mastered it, your life is going to go a lot more smoothly than it would if you were trying to learn calculus and calculus based physics at the same time as a freshman.

If you have a learning disability, everything is going to take longer, and you are going to have to spend time reaching out for help more often. If you have ADHD, you are going to be less efficient and more tempted to procrastinate by working on the van when you should be doing problem sets.

If you aren't trying to learn calculus while applying it in other subjects at the same time, and you don't have any personal barriers to doing academic work reasonably efficiently, then you are going to need to spend about 15-16 hours a week in class, and probably something more than 15 hours and less than 32 hours a week on homework, for a combined 30-48 hours a week of academic work. Somewhere in the middle of that range would be pretty typical. If you need more than that many hours taking a regular full-time load of classes in college, and you don't have some sort of learning disability, you either weren't well enough prepared for your program, or you urgently need to get someone who help you learn how to study more efficiently and effectively.

If you are learning calculus for the first time as a freshman in an engineering program, or if you have a learning disability or similar barrier to studying with normal efficiency, you should try to take the lightest possible course load that you can in your freshman year and should limit your non-academic pursuits to the minimum that allows you to be social ties to your peers at college until you are comfortable you can handle more. But you MUST build some social ties or your feelings of isolation will undermine your academics and your ability to get help when you need it.

This said, remodeling a van is a project that can help keep you grounded and sane if you are attracted to engineering because you like working with things on a hands on basis, especially in the first year or two when the curriculum is often more book focused and academic, before you get into the upper division engineering courses that often include at least some more hands on and project based classes. And, if you are a very intense introvert who can get overwhelmed by interacting with large numbers of new people you've never met every day, a project like that can give you respite and mental quiet away from all of them.

Seeing your van mod as a survival necessary way to live, instead of as a fun project, however, is not the best approach. If you are worried about finances: don't! Take out student loans if you must. The cost of a living in a dorm isn't that high, and if you earn an engineering degree you will have the lowest risk of post-graduation unemployment and among the highest starting salaries of any of your peers. Paying off another $20,000-$30,000 of a student loans that financed room and board in college won't be that big of a deal.

Also, don't fall for the common misconception that college is only about taking classes. College is also a time to grow as a person, to meet people some of whom may end up being life long friends, to learn how to be an independent adult, and sometimes even to meet a life partner (something that is much harder once your undergraduate days are over) or short of that to learn from the school of hard knocks what forming a serious relationship with someone is about. You are being socialized into a social class and a profession and developing "soft skills" that cause so many employers to prefer college graduates even in jobs where the specific things you learned in college aren't requirements to do the job. Living on campus for at least two or three years, and living away from home the whole time, dramatically improves what you get out of the college experience as a person.

So, don't skimp.

The lessons you learn from your roommates, dorm mates, cafeteria buddies, and/or frat or sorority siblings are at least a third of what you learn in college. And, they are invariably lessons you didn't know you needed to learn, and thus, wouldn't get any other way because you wouldn't seek them out.

You make some really good points. I do suffer from ADHD and the thought of procrastinating on my project never even crossed my mind. I do consider myself an introvert but I would leave enough room in my van for 4 people to comfortably relax in either bench seats or in swivel seats. I plan on taking either AP calc or Honors calc my senior year of high school, as well as taking AP physics next (junior) year, so the academics don’t worry me all that much. Thank you for your input, and bringing certain things into perspective for me.

 

[whatamievendoing]

I don't know what the details of the law are for South Carolina, but I am reasonably certain they have requirements for waste disposal even on your own land. You can't just dump a toilet out onto the yard - even if it is your yard.

You are going about this completely backwards - have you talked to any adult about this plan? Because the first thing you need to do is get into college. Clemson is not as competitive as MIT or Stanford, but it is still competitive. It doesn't matter if you can pay for it or not if you can't get in.

Waste would be taken care of in a dump station near the campus. Trash and water have also been thought out and will be taken care of with ease. I am almost 100% certain I will get in, considering I have a 3.945 unweighted gpa and got a 1296 on the PSAT when I took it in 6th grade. I have discussed this with both of my parents, and they see no issues with the framework of the plan.

 

[PeroK]

Clemson University is in Clemson, South Carolina. As far as I am concerned, living on family owned land is not illegal, and considering it is less than a 15 minute bike ride from campus, I think it would actually be a better idea than spending over 20 grand per year for 8 years, plus the cost of tuition. I do see your point as to how I would save up the money, however I could take out a loan if need be (already would be required for college). As for the whole freezing thing, I would invest into climate control, such as insulation and heating for the mediocre winters I would experience. I am a hard worker and am very capable of making and saving money, despite my inexperience.

Not everyone has rich parents to put them through college, so it's a good idea to try to save as much as possible on accommodation. You want to graduate with as little debt as possible.

Alex Honnold lived out of a van for years, so you are in good company!

Good luck with it all.

 

[ohwilleke]

I plan on taking either AP calc or Honors calc my senior year of high school, as well as taking AP physics next (junior) year, so the academics don’t worry me all that much.

Good job! If you can do that you really have a good shot at making it. This will make a huge difference in your freshman year. People who try to start engineering curricula without this frequently fail, or at a minimum, struggle intensely all year studying every free moment and get mediocre grades despite that.

 

[fresh_42]

@whatamievendoing It is generally hard to tell whether your plan has a chance to succeed without knowing you personally or the details of the circumstances you're in. I think what can be said for sure is, that you need a really strong determination. The fact that you ask the internet for advice could be a sign of doubt, but doubt is what you cannot afford with such a plan.

Good luck!

 

[whatamievendoing]

@whatamievendoing It is generally hard to tell whether your plan has a chance to succeed without knowing you personally or the details of the circumstances you're in. I think what can be said for sure is, that you need a really strong determination. The fact that you ask the internet for advice could be a sign of doubt, but doubt is what you cannot afford with such a plan.

Good luck!

I would be the third person in my family to get a college degree after both of my parents, but I would be the first to go into engineering, which is why I came here. I figured I would be able to compare myself to others that went through a similar college degree as I would like to pursue. I am very excited to work out all of the minute details of this project, but I have doubts about the whole time management situation. I do not think money would be a huge issue, as I could always take out a loan, so really my only issue would be with time. As mentioned by another user earlier, I could always take more time and live on campus for an additional year.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Alex Honnold lived out of a van for years, so you are in good company!

He also dropped out of college.

I don't think this is the advice I would give to a high school sophomore.

A PSAT 1296 is, according to the College Board, a 1380 predicted SAT score. MIT's average is 1543. Clemson is 1310. So, you are a hair above average - maybe you'll get in, maybe you won't, but you will not be in the tippy-top of the class, for sure. I have serious doubts that taking on a major non-academic project will be beneficial towards graduation prospects.

I think your self-assessment is overly positive. Your safety school is not certain, and your hoped-for schools are unlikely to accept you. My advice is the same: concentrate on excelling in high school rather than fantasizing about living in a van.

 

[Mark44]

I feel some disagreement when I read something like, "this course is designed to be completed in 60 hours of instruction". A motivated student may need that much or more for the practice exercises. A capable but mediocre intellect student may need that much time or more for the practice exercises.

A typical metric is 3 hours for study and working problems for each hour in class.

 

[gleem]

@whatamievendoing What is the nature of the family owned land where you will park your van?

 

[ohwilleke]

A typical metric is 3 hours for study and working problems for each hour in class.

I've heard that recommended. I don't know many people who actually did it.

With a typical 15-16 hours a week in class, that is 60-64 hours a week on academics in and out of classes combined.

There are indeed a few really hard workers who maintain that pace, and get solid grades as a result. Maybe pre-meds need to do that. But there are also lots of people (maybe most college students on track to graduate) who get very solid grades and go on the do well in professional life, who spend only half as many hour a week on academics outside of class. In my experience, that is more typical.

Of course, hours spent outside of class are only an average. The first week of class, you probably have less homework to do. During the couple of weeks before final exams, or before a major paper or project is due, college students put in longer hours. When your class is in a week when you are covering something you learned in an AP class in high school, you need to study less, when you are struggling with a new concept, you need to study more.

Indeed, that brings up another point. In college, you need to have a certain amount of flexibility in your schedule so that you can fit in "surge" amounts of academic work when you need to do so. Even if you set aside enough hours each week to do the average amount of academic work you will need to do each week, you need to be able to ramp that up a lot at crunch times (which are petty much inevitable for all but the most conscientious non-ADHD student), which are less predictable than you'd think. So you can't have all of your other time in a week filled with non-negotiable demands on your time. I've seen college students with part-time jobs, or high stakes varsity sports team memberships, in particular, struggle not because they didn't have enough total available time to study, but because their schedules weren't flexible enough to manage surges in the amount of academic work they needed to do in a particular week.

 

[berkeman]

Clemson University is in Clemson, South Carolina. As far as I am concerned, living on family owned land is not illegal, and considering it is less than a 15 minute bike ride from campus, I think it would actually be a better idea than spending over 20 grand per year for 8 years, plus the cost of tuition.

Wait, you have family at Clemson? Why do you have to live in a van on their land while you go to school? Can't you just pay a nominal rent to live in a spare room there for a year to get you a good start in your undergrad?

 

[whatamievendoing]

He also dropped out of college.

I don't think this is the advice I would give to a high school sophomore.

A PSAT 1296 is, according to the College Board, a 1380 predicted SAT score. MIT's average is 1543. Clemson is 1310. So, you are a hair above average - maybe you'll get in, maybe you won't, but you will not be in the tippy-top of the class, for sure. I have serious doubts that taking on a major non-academic project will be beneficial towards graduation prospects.

I think your self-assessment is overly positive. Your safety school is not certain, and your hoped-for schools are unlikely to accept you. My advice is the same: concentrate on excelling in high school rather than fantasizing about living in a van.

Yes, but if you read the rest of the sentence, I was a 6th grader. An 11 year old. I got a higher score than most people MY AGE. I am 15 for reference. I will retake it again this year, and am almost positive that I will make a high enough score to surpass what anyone else in my class makes. I am not “a hair above average”. In 3rd grade, I was in the top 1% reading in my STATE, and my math was even higher. I took the PSAT in 6th grade, and passed with a 1296, 374 points higher than the 10th grade national average of 920. I was considered “academically gifted” and one of the top people in my district, much less my state. So before you call me out for being a “hair above average”, please read the rest of my sentence. Not trying to be rude, but I just find it very insulting to be constantly criticized, and while I understand that it is necessary to keep it realistic, I don’t think you are quite understanding everything I am saying.

[Post edited by a Mentor]

 

[whatamievendoing]

@whatamievendoing What is the nature of the family owned land where you will park your van?

Pretty sizable, my grandma has a mobile home, and it is pretty shady.

 

[whatamievendoing]

Wait, you have family at Clemson? Why do you have to live in a van on their land while you go to school? Can't you just pay a nominal rent to live in a spare room there for a year to get you a good start in your undergrad?

My grandma lives in a mobile home, and she also has a few mental issues that would make her hard to be around for extended periods. I would definitely treat her to breakfasts once a week though, because she is widowed unfortunately.

 

[jedishrfu]

My two cents...

Going to college and trying to work is fraught with a lot of pain. You simply cannot balance the two. I know this from experience.

I went to a local college to study physics. Compared to neighboring schools my highschool was behind the times. Our most advanced math course was Precalculus. It was a great course taught by a master teacher but it wasn't Calculus.

Over the summer, I learned Differential Calculus everything except the limit proofs. To me they were an unnecessary inconvenience. Fortunately, my college staggered the courses you needed to take to ensure that you would have both parts of Calculus under your belt by the time you started Introductory College Physics.

But I was working 20 hrs a week and I was in a hurry to learn more physics so I tested out of Differential Calculus. The prof was kind enough to approve after a brief test and a question on the meaning of the epsilon-delta limit proofs. That was the gotcha, I got it wrong and had to visit with him a couple of times explaining it in my own words. Finally in exasperation, I recited the book definition and he said you know I think you got it and smiled.

I thought I was pretty smart jumping ahead like that into meatier courses. I didn't care much about GPA or grades just learning. In hindsight, it would have been an easy A, and I let it pass me by.

During the first two years, I was able to glide through the important classes related to physics and math, but I was not too fond of chemistry for its afternoon 4-hour lab work. I was a commuter and tried to get all my classes in the morning so I could get the bus home in the afternoon, do some homework, and then go to work at the local Big-N department store. Big-N was a competitor to Kmart and very much like it, except we didn't have the blue light specials.

I even managed to take a few extra classes, which the college allowed without additional cost. Our college used a trimester system, with 10 weeks per trimester and three courses worth 3 and 1/3 credit hours each. Learning was very compressed. I knew of one student who doubled up taking six courses per trimester and effectively graduated with a four-year degree in two years while only paying for two years of college.

The third year, courses and homework started to get really tough and I had trouble keeping up. Each year of college is like 3 years of high school and if you don't stay on top of things or have the time to do so you will falter and fail.

My classical mechanics class (book Classical Dynamics by Marion) was taught on Mondays and Fridays. On Monday, we were given our homework for the week to be due the following Monday. I planned to wait until the weekend since I had no free time during the week which in hindsight was not a good plan.

In those days, we had no internet, only the college library, but being a commuter who worked, I had little time to go there and relied on my ability to get through the work. It always took me longer looking at whatever books I had to piece together an answer.

What made matters worse was that the Professor said, "Well, since you all are almost finished with Monday's work, here are a few more problems to be due on Monday, too." I was floored. I did my best, but I always managed to hand in my homework a few days late. The professor would tell me, "Your homework is good, its organized with clarity of thought but since it's late, I have to dock you a grade."

This pattern continued until I graduated with a low B average.

When my younger brother, who was 10 years younger than me, went to college, I told my parents that he shouldn't work because it would affect his grades. He didn't, and eventually, he got his PhD in physics. In contrast, I have a MS in Comp Sci and somehow I felt I failed in my mission. However, later while working full time managed to accrue almost enough graduate credits for an MS in Physics too.

My work allowed me to pay off my college loans six months after I graduated, but it impeded me from getting a higher academic degree like my brother did.

Please consider this story as relevant to your plan:
- working 20 hrs is too much
- no time to study / no time to play
- college gets tougher each year/people hit brick walls in their junior year
- don't skip courses you can do easily they will help your GPA
- don't work if you don't have to / it might give you 10 hours per week free time

 

[gleem]

@whatamievendoing How close will you be to the campus?

 

[whatamievendoing]

@whatamievendoing How close will you be to the campus?

Roughly 5 miles, or 15 minutes by bike.

 

[WWGD]

Bycicling back and forth for 15 minutes is certainly a good idea; fresh air, exercise, and doable year-long in the local climate. Still I worry somewhat about isolation. Give local, university clubs, groups, a chance. Or try local meetups of your liking.

 

[PeterDonis]

I figured I would be able to compare myself to others that went through a similar college degree as I would like to pursue.

One common thread I think you will find is that college will be harder than you think, even after you take into account that college will be harder than you think. Being at the top of your high school class is no guarantee of being able to make it through college easily, or at all while juggling other commitments like a job and a van conversion, particularly if you are shooting for a degree in a field like engineering.

 

[whatamievendoing]

Please consider this story as relevant to your plan:
- working 20 hrs is too much
- no time to study / no time to play
- college gets tougher each year/people hit brick walls in their junior year
- don't skip courses you can do easily they will help your GPA
- don't work if you don't have to / it might give you 10 hours per week free time

I could actually even apply some of the points you made in my high school coursework as well. I know that there are some classes that essentially are free DE 100s for a 6.0 weighted GPA, such as fundamentals of leadership, as well as sociology. Both of these can be taken at home, and would allow me to continue to take AP courses. As for the brick wall thing, I will be taking AP physics, Honors precalculus, as well as doubling up on engineering classes so I will be able to only take one engineering course my senior year. I will probably struggle a little bit to juggle all of the different workloads, however I do feel that this would be beneficial to me to properly put college workloads into perspective.

 

[whatamievendoing]

Bycicling back and forth for 15 minutes is certainly a good idea; fresh air, exercise, and doable year-long in the local climate. Still I worry somewhat about isolation. Give local, university clubs, groups, a chance. Or try local meetups of your liking.

Of course! I am sure some of my other friends will get into Clemson as well, so I won’t be starting completely from scratch. I would definitely do marching band after I finish my van build, strengthening current relationships as well as forming new connections.

 

[WWGD]

Of course! I am sure some of my other friends will get into Clemson as well, so I won’t be starting completely from scratch. I would definitely do marching band after I finish my van build, strengthening current relationships as well as forming new connections.

Good, try to preview, imagine an average week, consider potential issues and address them beforehand. How will you feed yourself, do laundry?
PS: I'm trying to help. Please let me know if I'm getting too much in your business.

 

[whatamievendoing]

Good, try to preview, imagine an average week, consider potential issues and address them beforehand. How will you feed yourself, do laundry?

There are laundromats nearby, but I will also install a 40 gallon freshwater tank that I could use for cleaning if need be. I could probably put myself on the meal plan, but I am also really fond of cooking. Most college food is pretty bad, but I was invited to an engineering camp on campus a while back, and it isn’t the worst. There are a good few mom and pop restaurants around where I will be staying as well, which usually have good food for cheap. I would install 800w solar panels that could allow me to install an induction cooktop, as well as a sizable fridge and freezer. I would most likely get a part time job after my second year to supply myself with a bit of money to sustain myself.

 

[gleem]

While it seems doable I share a concern with WWGD about your self-proclaimed introversion. Your plan just reinforces that behavior. You should be trying to overcome it, especially in this day when networking is so vital for one's professional satisfaction and success. Living with others will greatly help. Also to quote you, " I do not think money would be a huge issue, as I could always take out a loan, so really my only issue would be with time." and if time is the issue then your ADHD is problematic. As with all new experiences, there are unintended consequences that might impact your educational plans. Engineering is a good profession. Go with your strength, your academic prowess, try for scholarships, even a small one since you are niggling about $5K/year. After you graduate and get your dream job I expect you will say "What was I thinking". I know I have said that about a decision I made in grad school even though I thought I had only one choice. I also find it hard to believe your parents think this is a good idea.

 

[whatamievendoing]

PS: I'm trying to help. Please let me know if I'm getting too much in your business.

Not at all! I feel it is appropriate to ask these questions years in advance rather than on a need to know basis.

 

[jedishrfu]

I could actually even apply some of the points you made in my high school coursework as well. I know that there are some classes that essentially are free DE 100s for a 6.0 weighted GPA, such as fundamentals of leadership, as well as sociology. Both of these can be taken at home, and would allow me to continue to take AP courses. As for the brick wall thing, I will be taking AP physics, Honors precalculus, as well as doubling up on engineering classes so I will be able to only take one engineering course my senior year. I will probably struggle a little bit to juggle all of the different workloads, however I do feel that this would be beneficial to me to properly put college workloads into perspective.

You're missing my point. The brick wall is due to the level of difficulty of junior year courses where they expect you to understand these math courses fully:

- Calculus Differential(I), Integral(II) and Multiple Variable(III) courses
- Linear Algebra
- Differential Equations
- Statistics

Remember I said that each year of college is like three years of high school?

When you were a freshman in high school, could you do the work of a freshman in college?

Right now, you can't answer that because you aren't there yet and also by the time you get there it will have been three years or more.

In college, it will be as if you skipped those three years and jumped ahead, hitting a brick wall. Your level of coursework difficulty will triple, or at least the time to do it will triple, unless you prepare yourself after thoroughly learning the courses I mentioned above.

 

[whatamievendoing]

While it seems doable I share a concern with WWGD about your self-proclaimed introversion. Your plan just reinforces that behavior. You should be trying to overcome it, especially in this day when networking is so vital for one's professional satisfaction and success. Living with others will greatly help. Also to quote you, " I do not think money would be a huge issue, as I could always take out a loan, so really my only issue would be with time." and if time is the issue then your ADHD is problematic. As with all new experiences, there are unintended consequences that might impact your educational plans. Engineering is a good profession. Go with your strength, your academic prowess, try for scholarships, even a small one since you are niggling about $5K/year. After you graduate and get your dream job I expect you will say "What was I thinking". I know I have said that about a decision I made in grad school even though I thought I had only one choice. I also find it hard to believe your parents think this is a good idea.

The ADHD will definitely be a huge setback, for sure. I love nature, especially the mountains. This fact is the entire reason I would like to pursue this project. I would be about 30 minutes from my favorite state park, I could go hiking, just live in the moment. I would have a designated work station for my academics and later on, my work area (I plan on getting a remote job). I have always loved the thought of being able to go wherever I want and live my life to the fullest, whether that be in the mountains, or going home and seeing my family for a weekend. I am just imagining myself atop a mountain, me and my wife, crisp, cool air, surrounded by trees, overlooking a great big lake. Or I could even do my work with all of this in the background. I am never happier than when I am in the mountains. My parents have approved of my plan, not with “whatever makes you happy” but by openly embracing the idea. They love the thought of me gaining experience with building things, saving money, helping my grandma, and overall just doing what I love. I wouldn’t exactly call myself a complete moon loving, emo introvert, but if given the option, I usually prefer to work alone rather than in a group.

 

[whatamievendoing]

You're missing my point. The brick wall is due to the level of difficulty of junior year courses where they expect you to understand these math courses fully:

- Calculus Differential(I), Integral(II) and Multiple Variable(III) courses
- Linear Algebra
- Differential Equations
- Statistics

Remember I said that each year of college is like three years of high school?

When you were a freshman in high school, could you do the work of a freshman in college?

Right now, you can't answer that because you aren't there yet and also by the time you get there it will have been three years or more.

In college, it will be as if you skipped those three years and jumped ahead, hitting a brick wall. Your level of coursework difficulty will triple, or at least the time to do it will triple, unless you prepare yourself after thoroughly learning the courses I mentioned above.

Thank you for the clarification. I will keep all of this in mind.

 

[gleem]

I usually prefer to work alone rather than in a group.

I can appreciate that but, make this the last time you say it as it is now considered anathema, especially in industry. They want team players.

 

[jedishrfu]

That was my sentiment while in college, mainly because, being a commuter, I knew no one to talk to. I had one friend I could talk to when I could get ahold of him (pre-cell phone days). However, it was rare since I worked between 20 to 30 hours per week doing extra hours on the weekend when seasonal shopping was high.

There was one instance when the eight students in my EM theory class got together to divide up 50 questions the professor gave. He said he and his secretary would pick five from the list for our test. Yikes!

We all got together and divvied up the list, writing solutions and then making Xerox copies to share with the others. As it happened, I got the ones related to Special Relativity because of my interest in that topic.

On test day, we sat down to answer the questions. They were all pretty straightforward except the last two, which were the Special Relativity questions. I did well that day, perhaps better than I desired, all through working in a group and getting lucky.

But really, the group dynamic made a big job a lot shorter, and I wished I could have done it in other classes instead of going it alone. However, being a commuter with no presence on campus and no time due to work, I struggled beyond what other students did.

The one bright side was that I paid off my loans within six months of graduation, owing about $7.80 in interest charges because I asked a week too late to get a loan payoff number.

 

[berkeman]

Pretty sizable, my grandma has a mobile home, and it is pretty shady.

So if living/sleeping out of a van on your grandmother's property is an option, you might consider just buying a van that is already meant to be used for casual camping. One of my best friends when I started working as an EE in Silicon Valley was an avid rock climber who basically drove to Yosemite from Silicon Valley every weekend to climb. He had one of these Volkswagen Vanagon vans (I think a Westfalia):

Have you looked at purchasing a used camping van like these?

BTW, when I was in undergrad at UC Davis in Norcal I lived on-campus in the dorms the first 2 years, but for the last 2 years, I lived in off-campus apartments with roommates. So for those last 2 years, I commuted via bicycle to campus at similar distances to what you are planning. It was fine in good weather (but be sure to use lights when riding in the dawn/dusk/dark), but required pretty extensive rain gear during the rainy months. I don't know if you have snow at Clemson, but that would add another dimension.

EDIT/ADD -- Even if your grandmother situation is a bit dicey, does she have any utility hookups that you can share? Mostly I'm wondering if she has cable service and a cable modem. If she does, you might be able to connect to her WiFi if your van is not parked too far away.

 

[WWGD]

So if living/sleeping out of a van on your grandmother's property is an option, you might consider just buying a van that is already meant to be used for casual camping. One of my best friends when I started working as an EE in Silicon Valley was an avid rock climber who basically drove to Yosemite from Silicon Valley every weekend to climb. He had one of these Volkswagen Vanagon vans (I think a Westfalia):

View attachment 350517

Have you looked at purchasing a used camping van like these?

BTW, when I was in undergrad at UC Davis in Norcal I lived on-campus in the dorms the first 2 years, but for the last 2 years, I lived in off-campus apartments with roommates. So for those last 2 years, I commuted via bicycle to campus at similar distances to what you are planning. It was fine in good weather (but be sure to use lights when riding in the dawn/dusk/dark), but required pretty extensive rain gear during the rainy months. I don't know if you have snow at Clemson, but that would add another dimension.

EDIT/ADD -- Even if your grandmother situation is a bit dicey, does she have any utility hookups that you can share? Mostly I'm wondering if she has cable service and a cable modem. If she does, you might be able to connect to her WiFi if your van is not parked too far away.

Some today include TV, fridge, etc. Gives new meaning to sleeping in your car/van.