Gender Specific Fears: Is Criticism or Failure Worse?

[Moonbear]

It depends on what you have at risk.

I'd say the more at risk, the healthier it is to have a bit of fear of failure keeping you on your toes.

Of course, there's a difference between a mild, healthy fear that keeps you paying attention, and a crippling fear that stops you from doing anything at all, as someone else pointed out earlier.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I have to agree that laziness is the biggest problem for most people (including myself).

Aside from that, I would say that as a woman my fears are generally concerned with what others will think of me. If they are strangers I fear they will criticize or think less of me. If they are friends or family I fear I will disappoint them or not live up to their expectations of me. With people close to me I don't anticipate them openly criticizing me, but rather feel they'll be silently disappointed in me.

It's been *my* experience that women rely more heavily on the opinions of others than men do. Men fear what they see as a failure, women fear what they think others will see as a failure.

(Hope that made sense? I'm sleepy)

Thanks for the post that's on topic.

The assertion in the infomercial made me prick up my ears because it seemed to explain a difference between the way guys talk to each other and the way women seem to talk to each other. Women are "nicer", much more delicate, and if anything like a confrontation arises, which is much less frequent than with guys, it's much more subtle.

If it's true that men are naturally preoccupied with fear of failure and women naturally preoccupied with fear of criticism, with each not realizing the other has a different overriding concern, it could easily lead to communication problems.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm trying to figure out how the two aren't interrelated from the start? Don't failure and criticism pretty much go hand in hand? If you're getting criticized, it's generally because you've done something wrong, not because you were a great success. And, if you fail, isn't someone going to come along and criticize you for it?

In my (admittedly narrow) experience, men tend to judge themselves whereas women tend to allow themselves to be judged by others. This is the difference between fear of failure (judgement by oneself) and fear of criticism (judgement by others). Men tend to have (or at least, express) more confidence in themselves.


The usual disclainers such as 'results not typical', YMMV, 'just because I observe it doesn't mean I like it', etc.

 

[TuviaDaCat]

i myself don't care much about other's criticism, only when they remind me of something i have already pointed to myself as a weakness.
so basically, i don't care much for other's criticism, since I am already open with myself, so i think i know myself pretty good, so if there is something wrong, probably, i will be the first to know.

though I am not sure which sort of faliure are you people are talking about. if faliure is the diminish of self pride, then i care not, since I am not competitive with anyone(or atleast I am teaching myself not to be one, and it kinda works), so there is no pride to lose. i believe that it is better when one can define his own goals, than relying on other's(and being competitive means relying on other's condition in respect to your own)

though if it is the fear practical loss in taking a risk, then i do not know the answer, I am still young, so i didnt really have the chance to put that in test.

one thing i sure know, laziness drives me, i don't remember myself filled with innitiation to do something, like the motion law of aristotle, i tend to stop moving. I am kinda like a corpse. the funny thing is, i don't care =).
sometimes i think i could have been a great bedouin, just sitting on a carpet under a tent, smoking shishi(nargila, or however you americans call that device used for smoking through that pipe) all day, feeling the dry breeze of the desert, ahhhh, that could have been nice.

 

[Moonbear]

In my (admittedly narrow) experience, men tend to judge themselves whereas women tend to allow themselves to be judged by others. This is the difference between fear of failure (judgement by oneself) and fear of criticism (judgement by others). Men tend to have (or at least, express) more confidence in themselves.

That's not my experience at all. Most people I know are hardest on themselves...regardless of gender. The few people who aren't, generally are totally oblivious of their own weaknesses...or in denial...and then they also don't take criticism well at all either. I'm not sure they have a fear of criticism though; it seems more like they just are easily offended when someone is honest with them about their weaknesses. Again, I've seen that in both men and women.

 

[Moonbear]

Thanks for the post that's on topic.

Is it on topic because it agrees with the assumption in your original post? It seems all the posts are on topic, yet you picked out only one that's agreeing with your assertion to acknowledge as on topic. Seems like you're choosing to ignore criticism of the claim.

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

That's not my experience at all. Most people I know are hardest on themselves...regardless of gender. The few people who aren't, generally are totally oblivious of their own weaknesses...or in denial...and then they also don't take criticism well at all either. I'm not sure they have a fear of criticism though; it seems more like they just are easily offended when someone is honest with them about their weaknesses. Again, I've seen that in both men and women.

Though there is a big difference I think between being hard or critical on yourself and having low self esteem. But I'm not exactly sure how to put the difference. For instance I personally know I'm not great at physical sports, I probably have a fairly critical and judging view of other people (for instance I'm extremely prejudicial of people who are 'emo' and I personally can't understand any logic that such a person puts forward to justify his stance etc.) and I'm definitely not good looking xD. I'm also extremely indecisive.

However dispite these self-criticisms which I know are true in the end I honestly don't care. I couldn't care less if people don't like my attitude because they can go to hell. Everynow and then when my Mum is stressed she claims I have a problem, usually an attitude problem (not caring about anything). She claims I can't "see" the problem but in actual fact I see it quite clearly but in the end I honestly don't care, if someone thinks I have a problem with my attitude it isn't a problem with me it's problem with them.

When people say "everyone has problems" they are referring to what they see as problems but for myself I'm fine how I am. Because of this I guess in some ways I don't strive to "improve" my 'bad attitude' (which obviously I don't consider bad), but that's because I'm fine with how my attitude is and people just have to understand that I don't care at all.

But despite self-criticising myself I am fairly narcissistic (probably partly because of not caring about anything, my looks, my 'attitude', any outiside criticisms) and pessimistic.

But again criticisms for me come back to perspective. Criticisms which are meant to stir like teasing etc. etc. or truthfull criticisms about certain aspects of myself which I deem fine but others don't (ie. attitude), would be 'ignored' (I'll still listen but they just won't stir any action in me) easily through not caring at all. However if I'm doing something on a game, or let's say in an experiment, or doing a job or something (assuming I get off my lazy ass) then of course it would stir action - unless of course I know it's wrong through experience or whatever.

It's hard to explain it, it's like an "I don't care about just about everything" attitude minus low-selfesteem, minus low-lifeappreciation and minus rebellion.

I'm weird haha


~Gelsamel

 

[TuviaDaCat]

i don't like you

btw, a problem you don't care about is not your problem. its what others think as a problem in you.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Is it on topic because it agrees with the assumption in your original post?

It's on topic because it addresses the issue of fear of criticism vs fear of failure as they may relate to gender. It doesn't veer off onto the subject of someones worst fear as a man or woman, or whether or not laziness is a more dominant problem than fear in getting a project started.

It seems all the posts are on topic, yet you picked out only one that's agreeing with your assertion to acknowledge as on topic.

I singled that post out for being on topic because it was the first one to get squarely BACK on topic after the wonderful foray into fear of castration.

Seems like you're choosing to ignore criticism of the claim.

Seems like I'm conducting an informal pole to see how the claim is confirmed or contradicted by PF posters experience.

Whether or not a certain amount of fear of failure is a good thing is completely irrelevant. The question is whether or not it's actually a male thing. Likewise, is fear of criticism authentically a more likely reaction for a woman.

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

i don't like you

btw, a problem you don't care about is not your problem. its what others think as a problem in you.

I'm glad we agree.

I singled that post out for being on topic because it was the first one to get squarely BACK on topic after the wonderful foray into fear of castration.

'ey that was on the topic of gender specific fears . And I answered the question about my experience with the fear of failure*, it just lead onto other things.

~Gelsamel

*If you don't want to read back through my posts then it was just yes, failure over criticism but failure is just so minimal along with criticism it's really negligiable.

 

[Moonbear]

The question is whether or not it's actually a male thing. Likewise, is fear of criticism authentically a more likely reaction for a woman.

Then in case you missed my answer...NO, it's not. It's hype by someone trying to sell some get rich quick scheme to gullible people watching late night TV.

 

[Evo]

I'm not afraid of criticism, it just means that the person criticisizng doesn't have enough knowledge to understand that what I am doing is correct.

(off topic side note - Zoobie, the wooden HO you sent me is going to be added to my desk menagerie along with two reindeer, two cows, and a zebra. I'm thinking of dressing them in halloween costumes.)

 

[Artman]

So is a gay guy's worst fear that he will fail to be criticised?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Then in case you missed my answer...NO, it's not. It's hype by someone trying to sell some get rich quick scheme to gullible people watching late night TV.

The invitation of the OP is for people to post their own individual experience. As I said, it's an informal pole, the goal of which is to see if the assertion is born out or contradicted here among people who feel like responding. To the extent people speak for themselves saying "Yes, this holds true for me, personally," or "No, that doesn't hold true for me personally" then I, and anyone whose interested, have some small bits of data to ponder and compare with any future imput that might come our way about this. To the extent people assert answers they believe apply to their whole sex, and also to the other sex, it creates gratuitous tension in anyone else considering responding. I can imagine them thinking "Well, I can't share my own experience now because it contradicts someone who'se declared there is no such difference and they may want to start an argument about it."

 

[Artman]

I have to agree based on my own experience. I couldn't care less what others think about my projects. I sometimes wonder if they will fail, but not to the point I won't try.

My wife on the other hand frets over what others say, or her fear of what they think.

 

[NoTime]

Seems like I'm conducting an informal pole to see how the claim is confirmed or contradicted by PF posters experience.

I think posters in general are unlikely to exhibit either fear.
With the self selected sample your results will be skewed.

My experience with criticizing women is that its dangerous
Try telling your SO that her dress makes her look fat

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think posters in general are unlikely to exhibit either fear.
With the self selected sample your results will be skewed.

This occurred to me after starting the thread. Anyone, man or woman, who worries about possible criticism when they consider undertaking a project, isn't likely to be comfortable volunteering that information about themselves on an open forum. It doesn't seem to apply equally to both fears. It seems to be less difficult to report fear of failure

My experience with criticizing women is that its dangerous
Try telling your SO that her dress makes her look fat

I, personally, can have a strong, sharp reaction to some forms of criticism. However, that is an after-the-fact event different than what I'm asking about in the OP. In general, I don't dwell much on the thought of future criticism and am more likely, instead, to worry about finding out, after I'm well into a project it'll end up being impossible for me to successfully complete under the current circumstances.

 

[Artman]

My experience with criticizing women is that its dangerous
Try telling your SO that her dress makes her look fat

You could be on to something. Things women fear do appear to be in grave danger. Just look at your average spider. Does the phrase "KILL IT!" sound familiar to anyone else?

 

[arildno]

So is a gay guy's worst fear that he will fail to be criticised?

Yes, that is an awful prospect for us.

How dreadful if our scandal-making efforts do not produce any shocks...

 

[Pythagorean]

...am more likely, instead, to worry about finding out, after I'm well into a project it'll end up being impossible for me to successfully complete under the current circumstances.

I admit this can be depressing, even if not frightening.

 

[Pythagorean]

The invitation of the OP is for people to post their own individual experience. As I said, it's an informal pole, the goal of which is to see if the assertion is born out or contradicted here among people who feel like responding. To the extent people speak for themselves saying "Yes, this holds true for me, personally," or "No, that doesn't hold true for me personally" then I, and anyone whose interested, have some small bits of data to ponder and compare with any future imput that might come our way about this. To the extent people assert answers they believe apply to their whole sex, and also to the other sex, it creates gratuitous tension in anyone else considering responding. I can imagine them thinking "Well, I can't share my own experience now because it contradicts someone who'se declared there is no such difference and they may want to start an argument about it."

In defense of my response, I totally thought I was staying on topic, but I may have made my response unclear with my neo-socratic method.

Me personally, I have feared both criticism and failure, but they're occurences are seldom and usually in insignificant arenas, parties or other strange (to me) social situations, when it comes to my work and my school, I will not fail, I can only learn from my mistakes... if I ever get around to taking a break from posting on physicsforums or playing cthulhumud and actually get out there and make some mistakes (which is kind of the fun of the whole thing anyway, making mistakes, having problems to solve, etc, etc)

My point in general was that failure and criticism are common fears for any human, regardless of their sex, and when I speak, I'm not speaking for my sex, I'm speaking for my age group (who I see, and study, a lot of) who all have their insecurities regardless of their sex, and failure and criticism are nealry homogenous fears that weave in and out of all our existences sooner or later in some period of our social life. If a fear becomes obtusely consistent in your life, it's a phobia, a mental illness, and one's sex isn't more susceptible to phobias then another. Sex is a cultural difference more than most people realize.

I also don't want to discourage anyone from refuting this point. I won't argue about something that's still a big question today "nature or nurture". Professionals argue about it still, so there's obviously no easy answer. I like to hear the opinion's of people who see flaws in my logic.

 

[zoobyshoe]

In defense of my response, I totally thought I was staying on topic, but I may have made my response unclear with my neo-socratic method.

I thought your original response was on topic, informative, and you were speaking for yourself:

I'm a man, and I have a constructively mild fear both.

Side discussions happen, sometimes, and people have their own opinions in place about some things, but my goal here was to get individual reports and build a picture from scratch rather than solicit other people's assumptions and guesses about how the picture will form.

 

[Pythagorean]

hrmm... I guess I'm operating under the assumption that even when poeple talk about themselves (or sometimes especially when they talk about theirselves) they're guessing and assuming.

Have you also thought about the error in people lying. I haven't studied the replies in this thread besides yours mainly, but I'd assume most people wouldn't admit to having fears, especially if they fear criticism, so they'd either lie to you or not reply.

EDIT: Ah, I realize my last paragraph is an extension of post # 47 above