God & Blackholes: Mysterious Ways vs Physics Theories

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the comparison between theological explanations of divine action and scientific statements regarding the nature of black holes, particularly focusing on the assertion that existing physics theories break down inside black holes. Participants examine the implications of these statements and the nature of knowledge in both domains.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the difference between the statement "God works in mysterious ways" and the assertion that "inside a black hole, all existing physics theories break," suggesting both reflect limitations in understanding.
  • Others argue that the two statements are fundamentally different, with one being a theological claim lacking empirical basis, while the other acknowledges the incompleteness of current scientific theories regarding black holes.
  • There is a suggestion that scientists are actively working on theories related to the conditions inside black holes, although the specifics of these theories remain unclear.
  • Some participants emphasize that physical laws have limitations and may not apply under certain conditions, such as at the center of a black hole.
  • A later reply asserts that scientists do recognize the incompleteness of existing theories, which is a driving factor behind research in quantum gravity.
  • One participant highlights the empirical evidence for the existence of black holes, contrasting it with the faith-based nature of theological claims.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between theological and scientific statements, with some seeing parallels and others emphasizing significant differences. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these statements and the nature of knowledge in both contexts.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of current physics in addressing conditions inside black holes, indicating a need for further theoretical development and exploration.

jobyts
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"God works on mysterious ways, which we don't understand" - a usual answer I hear from theists when asked about some contradictions.

As per the current Physics, "Inside a black hole, every existing physics theory breaks."

What's the difference between these two statements? Does god concept assumes we are in a black hole?

Also, how could science come up with a bold statement "Inside a black hole, all existing physics theories break." Why we don't come up with statement as "all the existing theories are incomplete because they all fail to predict what happens inside a black hole."?
 
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jobyts said:
"Inside a black hole, all existing physics theories break." Why we don't come up with statement as "all the existing theories are incomplete because they all fail to predict what happens inside a black hole."?
It's the same thing
 
mgb_phys said:
It's the same thing

Are scientists actively working on inside black hole theories/hypothesis? Even if we do not come up with a unified theory for both inside and outside of a BH, there has to be some physics inside a BH.
 
There is a difference between the "God moves in mysterious ways" answer and the black hole one.
The first is just an excuse for not thinking about a question, like why does God kill 4year olds in church and yet let's whoever wrote 'home alone' live.
The second is an approach by literal minded experimental physicsts that if you can never measure the conditions in an experiment you can't talk about it in physics - that's true of inside a black hole.

Physical laws have circumstances where they aren't an appropriate model. Newton's law of gravity is usefull for point sources at large distances but doesn't work when r=0 as at the middle of a Black hole. There are more complicated theories of quantum gravity for what would happen to gravity on a very small scale.
 
jobyts said:
Also, how could science come up with a bold statement "Inside a black hole, all existing physics theories break." Why we don't come up with statement as "all the existing theories are incomplete because they all fail to predict what happens inside a black hole."?

But...that's exactly what scientists are saying, that "all the existing theories are incomplete." It's part of the reason why quantum gravity is being so heavily worked on.
 
jobyts said:
"God works on mysterious ways, which we don't understand" - a usual answer I hear from theists when asked about some contradictions.

As per the current Physics, "Inside a black hole, every existing physics theory breaks."

What's the difference between these two statements? Does god concept assumes we are in a black hole?

Also, how could science come up with a bold statement "Inside a black hole, all existing physics theories break." Why we don't come up with statement as "all the existing theories are incomplete because they all fail to predict what happens inside a black hole."?

Plus, we've actually observed black holes. We know they exist.
 
jobyts said:
"God works on mysterious ways, which we don't understand" - a usual answer I hear from theists when asked about some contradictions.

As per the current Physics, "Inside a black hole, every existing physics theory breaks."

What's the difference between these two statements? Does god concept assumes we are in a black hole?

Also, how could science come up with a bold statement "Inside a black hole, all existing physics theories break." Why we don't come up with statement as "all the existing theories are incomplete because they all fail to predict what happens inside a black hole."?

I think there's a serious difference between the two statements. One is a theological statement which doesn't really admit to any sort of testing. You just have to take it on faith, or reject it (and really, either position would be arbitrary). The second statement is merely an admission that there's more physics to be done, because we don't have enough knowledge to talk about the inside of a black hole's event horizon. "I don't know," is very different from an arbitrary statement of truth which isn't based on any empirical evidence.
 

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