Half Comes From Where? Understanding the Origin of 1/2

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding how the value of 1/2 is derived in the context of integrals, particularly involving the function 1 + cos(2t). Participants explore various approaches to solving the integral and simplifying the resulting expressions, with a focus on limits and anti-derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how the value of 1/2 is derived from the integral, prompting others to suggest solving the integral of 1 + cos(2t) and simplifying the limit.
  • Another participant mentions that the integral of 1 + cos(2t) results in 2T + sin(2T), indicating potential confusion due to a lack of recent calculus practice.
  • Some participants propose that the improper integral can be solved by expanding into F(T) - F(-T) and collecting constants, leading to a limit expression as T approaches infinity.
  • A later reply suggests that the value of 1/2 can be obtained for any T ≠ 0, challenging the necessity of taking the limit as T approaches infinity.
  • Another participant counters this by stating that the expression simplifies to 1/2 only under specific conditions related to the limit, particularly when a approaches infinity.
  • There is a discussion about the integration of cos^2(t) and how it relates to the expression for 1/2, with participants correcting each other's mathematical steps and clarifying misunderstandings regarding signs in the sine function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the limit is necessary to derive the value of 1/2, indicating a lack of consensus on the approach to solving the integral and the conditions under which the value holds.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about their mathematical manipulations and the implications of limits, highlighting potential gaps in understanding or assumptions made during the discussion.

waqarrashid33
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Let me know how 1/2 comes from it.see attachemet
 

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Have you tried anything for yourself?

Solve the integral and see if you can simplify the limit to transform the expression into a form that you know the answer to.
 
i tried a lot but answer goes wrong..
i didn't touched with calculus since long time...May be it is because of this...
For the integral of 1+cos(2t) gives 2T+sin(2T).
 
waqarrashid33 said:
i tried a lot but answer goes wrong..
i didn't touched with calculus since long time...May be it is because of this...
For the integral of 1+cos(2t) gives 2T+sin(2T).

Yes that would probably be the problem then.
\int1+\cos(2t)dt=t+\frac{1}{2}\sin(2t)

Start from there.
 
waqarrashid33 said:
i tried a lot but answer goes wrong..
i didn't touched with calculus since long time...May be it is because of this...
For the integral of 1+cos(2t) gives 2T+sin(2T).

Try solving your improper integral (for 1 + cos(2t) you will get anti-derivative t + 1/2sin(2t)) and then expand into F(T) - F(-T), collect your constant outside of the integral (1/2T) bring it together and you will get a limit expression in terms of T where T goes to infinity.

There are limit theorems you can use to solve this also.
 
Thanks...
 
waqarrashid33 said:
Thanks...



Interesting: you don't even need \,\,T\to\infty\,\,. It is 1/2 for any \,\,T\neq 0\,.

DonAntonio
 
DonAntonio said:
Interesting: you don't even need \,\,T\to\infty\,\,. It is 1/2 for any \,\,T\neq 0\,.

DonAntonio

Not quite, the final steps of the solution are to simplify \frac{1}{2}\left(1+\lim_{T\to a}\frac{\sin(2T)}{2T}\right)

and that expression is only equal to 1/2 if \lim_{T\to a}\frac{\sin(2T)}{2T}=0 which only happens for a=\infty
 
Mentallic said:
Not quite, the final steps of the solution are to simplify \frac{1}{2}\left(1+\lim_{T\to a}\frac{\sin(2T)}{2T}\right)

and that expression is only equal to 1/2 if \lim_{T\to a}\frac{\sin(2T)}{2T}=0 which only happens for a=\infty



I don't know how you got that. I get
\int_{-T}^T \cos^2(t)dt=\left[\frac{t+\cos t\sin t}{2}\right]_{-T}^T=\frac{1}{2}\left[T+\cos T\sin T-\left(-T-\cos(-T)\sin(-T)\right)\right]=\frac{2T}{2}=T
as \,\,\cos(-T)\sin(-T)=-\cos T\sin T\,\, , and then
\frac{1}{2T}\int^T_{-T}\cos^2 t\,dt=\frac{1}{2}
like that, without limit...

DonAntonio
 
  • #10
DonAntonio said:
I don't know how you got that. I get
\int_{-T}^T \cos^2(t)dt=\left[\frac{t+\cos t\sin t}{2}\right]_{-T}^T

How did you get that?

\cos^2t=\frac{1}{2}\left(1+\cos(2t)\right)

Oh ok I see what you have, after integrating you converted sin(2t) to 2sin(t)cos(t)

DonAntonio said:
\left(-T-\cos(-T)\sin(-T)\right)

This should be

\left(-T+\cos(-T)\sin(-T)\right)
 
Last edited:
  • #11
Mentallic said:
How did you get that?

\cos^2t=\frac{1}{2}\left(1+\cos(2t)\right)

Oh ok I see what you have, after integrating you converted sin(2t) to 2sin(t)cos(t)



This should be

\left(-T+\cos(-T)\sin(-T)\right)


Yes indeed. So much worrying about the change of sign in the sine of -T that I forgot I had that minus sign out of the parentheses. Thanx.

DonAntonio
 

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