Hamiltonian (electron in an electro-m field)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the Hamiltonian for an electron in an electromagnetic field, specifically focusing on the transformation of the Hamiltonian from one form to another. The original poster presents a Hamiltonian equation involving momentum, vector potential, and magnetic field terms, and seeks to demonstrate its equivalence to a different expression.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the manipulation of Hamiltonian equations, questioning how to express certain terms and the implications of vector calculus identities. There are attempts to clarify the relationships between momentum and vector potential, particularly in the context of the cross product.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on considering the wavefunction in relation to the Hamiltonian, while others have suggested using vector calculus identities to simplify expressions. The discussion is ongoing, with participants actively engaging in exploring different approaches without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem, particularly in handling terms involving the cross product and the implications of the Schrödinger equation. There is an acknowledgment of the need for additional clarification on certain mathematical identities and their application in this context.

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Homework Statement



Given H=\frac{1}{2m}\left[ \vec{P}-q\vec{A}\right] ^{2}+qU+\frac{q\hbar }{2m}\vec{\sigma}.\vec{B} ..(1)
show that it can be written in this form;
H=\frac{1}{2m}\left\{ \vec{\sigma}.\left[ \vec{P}-q\vec{A}\right] \right\}^{2}+qU ...(2)

Homework Equations


[/B]
In my case, I am going to use only;

\left( \vec{\sigma}.\vec{R}\right) ^{2}=\vec{R^2}+i\vec{\sigma}.\left( \vec{R}\times \vec{R}\right) ...(3)

The Attempt at a Solution


Writing equation (1) in this form;
H=\frac{1}{2m}\left[\left[ \vec{P}-q\vec{A}\right]^{2}-i\vec{\sigma}(iq\hbar\vec{B})\right]+qU

using the equation (3) and identifying terms;

\vec{R}=\vec{P}-q\vec{A}

then, to replace \left[\left[ \vec{P}-q\vec{A}\right]^{2}-i\vec{\sigma}(iq\hbar\vec{B})\right] by \left\{ \vec{\sigma}.\left[ \vec{P}-q\vec{A}\right] \right\}^{2}

the following must satisfy;

\left( \vec{R}\times\vec{R}\right)=iq\hbar\vec{B}

to do that, I write RxR like;
\left[ \vec{P}-q\vec{A}\left( \vec{R},t\right) \right] \times \left[ \vec{P}-q\vec{A}\left( \vec{R},t\right) \right] =\vec{P}\times \vec{P}+q^{2}\vec{A} \times \vec{A}-\vec{P}\times q\vec{A} -q\vec{A}\times \vec{P}

the first two term (PxP and AxA) on the right hand are equal to 0. But I don't know what to do with the rest;
\vec{P}\times q\vec{A} -q\vec{A}\times \vec{P}
 
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AhmirMalik said:
the first two term (PxP and AxA) on the right hand are equal to 0. But I don't know what to do with the rest;
\vec{P}\times q\vec{A} -q\vec{A}\times \vec{P}
Remember that ##\mathbf{p} = -i\hbar\nabla## and that in the actual Schroedinger equation, the Hamiltonian will be multiplied by the wavefunction. Thus, instead of only \vec{P}\times q\vec{A} -q\vec{A}\times \vec{P}, you should consider (\vec{P}\times q\vec{A} -q\vec{A}\times \vec{P})\psi where ##\psi## is an arbitrary wavefunction.
 
Thank you for replying.

Actually, I knew that. And that's where I'm stucked. Could you please develop a bit more?
 
Consider the first term which is proportional to ##\mathbf{p}\times (\mathbf{A}\psi) = i\hbar\nabla \times (\mathbf{A}\psi)##, At this point, you can use the identity involving the curl of a product between a scalar function and a vector like the one in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curl_(mathematics).
 
Ok, thank you !
 
Last edited:
AhmirMalik said:
Can I do the following? ;

-q\vec{A}\times\vec{P}\psi=i\hbar q\vec{A}\times\vec{\nabla}\psi=-i\hbar q \vec{\nabla}\psi\times\vec{A} and then the whole term;

-\vec{P}\times q\vec{A}\psi-q\vec{A}\times\vec{P}\psi=i\hbar q[\vec{\nabla}\psi\times\vec{A}+\psi\vec{\nabla}\times\vec{A}]-i\hbar q \vec{\nabla}\psi\times\vec{A}=i\hbar q\psi\vec{\nabla}\times\vec{A}=i\hbar q\psi\vec{B}
Yes, that's indeed how you should proceed.
 
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