Help Me Solve This Differential Equation!

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the differential equation $\displaystyle \frac{dy}{dx}=\ln(x)-\ln(y)+\frac{x-y}{x+y}$. Participants explore various approaches, substitutions, and transformations related to the equation, examining its complexity and potential solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the differential equation and their progress in manipulating it, leading to a substitution $v=\frac{y}{x}$.
  • Another participant identifies a potential mistake in the manipulation of terms after multiplying by $\frac{1}{x}$ and provides an alternative formulation using the substitution.
  • A different participant confirms the use of the product rule with the substitution $y=vx$ and notes that it leads to a separable equation, but suggests that the resulting integral may not be expressible in elementary functions.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the ability to find even an implicit solution, referencing computational tools that also fail to provide a solution.
  • One participant proposes a general form of the solution involving an integral, indicating a potential pathway but not a definitive answer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on how to proceed with solving the differential equation. There are multiple competing views regarding the correctness of manipulations and the feasibility of finding a solution.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the correctness of the transformations and substitutions made, as well as the nature of the resulting integrals. The discussion highlights the complexity of the problem and the limitations of the approaches considered.

paulmdrdo1
Messages
382
Reaction score
0

please help me continue solving this,

$\displaystyle \frac{dy}{dx}=\ln(x)-\ln(y)+\frac{x-y}{x+y}$

this is where I can get to,

$\displaystyle \frac{dy}{dx}=\ln(\frac{x}{y})+\frac{x-y}{x+y}$

multiplying the 2nd term by $\frac{1}{x}$

$\displaystyle \frac{dy}{dx}=\ln(\frac{x}{y})+\frac{\frac{x}{y}-1}{\frac{x}{y}+1}$

using the substitution, $\displaystyle v=\frac{y}{x}$--->$\displaystyle y=vx$----->>$\displaystyle\frac{1}{v}=\frac{x}{y}$

$\displaystyle \frac{dy}{dx}=\ln(\frac{1}{v})+\frac{\frac{1}{v}-1}{\frac{1}{v}+1}$

until here I don't know how to proceed.. please help!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You have a mistake in your third equation if you really multiplied by $1/x$, because

$$\frac{x-y}{x+y} = \frac{x \left( 1 - \frac{y}{x} \right)}{x \left( 1 + \frac{y}{x} \right)} = \frac{ 1- \frac{y}{x} }{ 1 + \frac{y}{x} }.$$

Therefore with the substitution $y = vx$ we have

$$
\begin{align}
\frac{dy}{dx} & = v + \frac{dv}{dx} \\
& \text{and} \\
v + \frac{dv}{dx} &= \ln (v) + \frac{1-v}{1+v}.
\end{align}
$$

Perhaps this is more tractable. :)
 
Actually, if one uses:

$$y=vx$$

We find by use of the product rule:

$$\frac{dy}{dx}=v+x\frac{dv}{dx}$$

This will lead you to a separable, but from what I can tell, an integral not expressible in terms of elementary functions.
 
then how can we solve this?
 
paulmdrdo said:
then how can we solve this?

Are you certain you have copied the problem exactly as given? I could be wrong or overlooking an appropriate substitution, but I do not see how to obtain even an implicit solution, and W|A cannot either.
 
MarkFL said:
Are you certain you have copied the problem exactly as given? I could be wrong or overlooking an appropriate substitution, but I do not see how to obtain even an implicit solution, and W|A cannot either.

Yes, I copied it correctly.
 
paulmdrdo said:
Yes, I copied it correctly.

The best I can do is give a solution of the form:

$$x=C\exp\left(\int f(v)\,dv \right)$$ where $C>0$.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K