Help with permutations and combinations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the total number of combinations when selecting r objects from n total objects, with the added complexity of having x mutually exclusive objects. Participants explore different approaches and formulas to address this combinatorial problem.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a formula for total permutations as \(\frac{n!}{(n-r)!r!}\) and suggests subtracting combinations involving mutually exclusive events.
  • Another participant asserts that if the objects are mutually exclusive, only one can be selected, leading to a modified selection from \(n - x + 1\) objects and multiplying by the number of ways to choose from the x objects.
  • A third participant challenges the previous claim, stating it overlooks combinations that do not include one of the mutually exclusive objects.
  • A proposed solution is presented in the form of a summation, suggesting that the total combinations can be calculated as \(\binom{n}{k}-\sum_{i=2}^{x}\left[\binom{x}{i}\times\binom{n-x}{k-i}\right]\), with a specific simplification for \(x=2\).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to the problem, with multiple competing views and interpretations of how to handle the mutually exclusive objects.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the potential misunderstanding of the definitions of mutually exclusive objects and the assumptions underlying the proposed formulas. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps involved in the calculations.

Ryoukomaru
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How do u calculate the the total number of combinations, given that you have n number of object and you will choose r of the objects, but x of these objects are mutually exclusive. Let x=2 for your explanations.

I kinda have an idea on how to do this, but i can't frecall an formula for the calculations.

Total number of permutations would be \frac{n!}{(n-r)!r!} And now i have to subtract from this, the number of combinations with one of the mutually exclusive events given that the other has happened.

P.S. Maybe i should post a question to help you understand better ? ..., as my linguistic skills are not top-notch.
 
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If the objects are mutually exclusive that means you can only select 1 of them. So you choose from n - x + 1 objects, and multiply it by x ways to choose from the x objects.
 
I don't think that's quite right. It ignores the combinations that don't have one of the x objects.
 
A solution for this problem is:

\binom{n}{k}-\sum_{i=2}^{x}\left[\binom{x}{i}\times\binom{n-x}{k-i}\right]

I'm sure there's a more elegant formulation, but this one works.

Of course, for x=2, this simplifies to:

\binom{n}{k}-\binom{n-2}{k-2}
 
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