HG Wells: The first to call time a fourth dimension?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the historical context of H.G. Wells' conception of time as the fourth dimension, particularly in relation to the scientific understanding of dimensions prior to Einstein's theories. Participants explore whether Wells was the first to publish this idea and the implications of his background as a fiction writer in 1895.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Historical
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that many individuals had the basic idea of time as the fourth dimension before Einstein, reflecting on their own early thoughts on the concept.
  • There is a contention regarding whether Wells was the first to publish the idea of time as a fourth dimension, with some expressing interest in the novelty of his contribution compared to contemporary scientific literature.
  • One participant argues that the notion of time as a fourth dimension may not have been obvious even with knowledge of geometry, especially considering Wells' background as a fiction writer.
  • Another participant points out that in studying time-dependent partial differential equations, the addition of time as another dimension seems natural, questioning why this was not more widely recognized earlier.
  • A humorous correction is made regarding the spelling of "fourth," indicating a light-hearted engagement in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the idea of time as a fourth dimension was widely accepted or recognized in scientific circles before Wells. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the originality of Wells' claim and the general understanding of dimensions at the time.

Contextual Notes

There is uncertainty about the extent to which the scientific community had already conceptualized time as a fourth dimension prior to Wells' writings. The discussion highlights potential limitations in historical knowledge and the contextual understanding of dimensions in mathematics and physics during that era.

Ivan Seeking
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The claim was made tonight on a program about science fiction writers that HG Wells was aware of a geometry of 4 dimensions, and then made the leap of faith that time was a 4th dimension - ten years before Einstein came along.

Did he really conceive of this before anyone else? I never read the novel and probably assumed that any such allusions in the movie to the 4th dimension had been added by Hollywood [long after Einstein published].
 
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Undoubtedly lots of people had the basic idea of time=4th dimension before Einstein. Surely you yourself had this idea in gradeschool when you learned about cartesian coordinate systems and wondered what it would be like to have a 4th dimension. The real insight with relativity was that spacetime isn't just a standard R4.
 


maze said:
Undoubtedly lots of people had the basic idea of time=4th dimension before Einstein. Surely you yourself had this idea in gradeschool when you learned about cartesian coordinate systems and wondered what it would be like to have a 4th dimension. The real insight with relativity was that spacetime isn't just a standard R4.

Well, hindsight is very convenient, and no, I don't think time as a 4th dimension is obvious even given knowledge of a respective geometry. It might seem that way now, esp to a scientist, but we are talking about a fiction writer in 1895. Was he the first to publish this idea? If so I think that would be quite interesting.

Perhaps this idea was already floating in the scientific literature of the day? My understanding was that Einstein's paper was considered to be quite novel even in scientific circles.
 
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Well, I mean, if you are studying a time-dependent PDE like the 3D heat equation or whatever else they were doing back in the day, the natural domain is R3 x [T0,T1], which is R3 x an_interval_of_R. How could a mathematician not see that it is just adding another "dimension"?
 


Whoever was the first to call time a forth dimension surely wasn't proud of it because "forth" is not an adjective!
 


maze said:
Well, I mean, if you are studying a time-dependent PDE like the 3D heat equation or whatever else they were doing back in the day, the natural domain is R3 x [T0,T1], which is R3 x an_interval_of_R. How could a mathematician not see that it is just adding another "dimension"?

I would assume then that you can direct me to something showing that everyone in mathematical and scientific circles was talking about it before Wells came along; and of course before Einstein came along.

I think the point you're missing is that physical dimensions were viewed only as spatial dimensions. My impression is that time as a fourth dimension was completely counterintuitive at the time - even to scientists. But if you can show that mathematicians or scientists were expecting this - that time was a fourth - that might explain how Wells made the leap.

Wells had a BS in Zoology.

heh, fourth.
 
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