Homeomorphisms and ##\mathbb{R}##

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether the real numbers ##\mathbb{R}## with the usual topology and ##\mathbb{R}## with the discrete topology are homeomorphic. Participants explore the implications of the properties of open sets in both topologies and the requirements for a function to be a homeomorphism.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the existence of single-element subsets in the discrete topology implies that a homeomorphism cannot exist, as open sets in the usual topology require at least two elements or none.
  • Others argue that for a function to be a homeomorphism, the pre-image of any open set must also be open, raising questions about the nature of the pre-image of single-element sets.
  • A later reply questions what is required for the pre-image of a single-element set to be open in the context of the usual topology.
  • Participants note that if a bijection exists, there would only be one available pre-image for a single-element set, which complicates the continuity requirement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the difficulty of establishing a homeomorphism between the two topological spaces, but multiple competing views remain regarding the implications of open sets and continuity.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of open sets in different topologies and the unresolved nature of the continuity requirement for the proposed homeomorphism.

kent davidge
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Is it hard to show that ##\mathbb{R}## with the usual topology and ##\mathbb{R}## with the discrete topology are not homeomorphic? I'm reasoning this way: in the discrete topology there are every possible subsets of ##\mathbb{R}##, which includes those with just one element of the type ##\{x \}##. There cannot be bijection from an open subset of the usual topology, which requires a distance greater than zero, and a set with just one element. Is this sufficient in proving that these two topological spaces are not homeomorphic?
 
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kent davidge said:
Is it hard to show that ##\mathbb{R}## with the usual topology and ##\mathbb{R}## with the discrete topology are not homeomorphic? I'm reasoning this way: in the discrete topology there are every possible subsets of ##\mathbb{R}##, which includes those with just one element of the type ##\{x \}##. There cannot be bijection from an open subset of the usual topology, which requires a distance greater than zero, and a set with just one element. Is this sufficient in proving that these two topological spaces are not homeomorphic?
You already said it. Assume a homeomorphism ##f \, : \,\mathbb{R}_E \longrightarrow \mathbb{R}_D## from the Euclidean reals to the discrete reals. Now ##\{x\} \subseteq \mathbb{R}_D ## is open. Now what is required for ##f^{-1}(\{x\}) \subseteq \mathbb{R}_E\,##?
 
fresh_42 said:
Now what is required for ##f^{-1}(\{x\}) \subseteq \mathbb{R}_E\,##?
To be open?
 
Yes, ##f## has to be continuous, i.e. pre-images of open sets have to be open. But open sets in Euclidean ##\mathbb{R}_E## contain at least two elements or none. Either way, if ##f## is a bijection, we have only one available for ##f^{-1}(\{x\})##.
 
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