How Are Atoms Compressed in Black Holes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the compression of atoms in black holes, exploring the limits of matter compression, the nature of black holes, and the relationship between General Relativity and Quantum Theory. Participants examine whether black holes compress matter beyond the state of neutron stars and the implications of such compression.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how compressed the atoms in black holes are and whether there is a limit to matter compression.
  • One participant suggests that the maximum compression occurs when subatomic particles are touching, equating this to the state of a neutron star.
  • Another participant asserts that black holes are compressed beyond the state of neutron stars, implying that subatomic particles are squeezed into a smaller state.
  • General Relativity posits that a black hole compresses to a singular point of infinite density, while Quantum Theory challenges this notion, leading to uncertainty about the true nature of black hole compression.
  • Participants discuss the distinction between the singularity at the center of a black hole and the event horizon, noting that the event horizon is not visible and serves as a boundary beyond which nothing can escape.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the limits of matter compression and the nature of black holes, with competing views on the implications of General Relativity and Quantum Theory. No consensus is reached on the specifics of black hole compression.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between General Relativity and Quantum Theory, as well as the definitions of terms like singularity and event horizon. There are unresolved questions regarding the nature of density in black holes.

leroyjenkens
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How compressed are the atoms black holes are made of? Is there a limit to how much you can compress matter?
It seems to me, the most you can compress matter would be until the individual subatomic particles are side by side touching each other.
Are black holes compressed more than that? Are they compressed so tight that the subatomic particles are squeezed into a smaller state than they exist naturally?
 
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leroyjenkens said:
How compressed are the atoms black holes are made of?
We don't know. A lot.
leroyjenkens said:
Is there a limit to how much you can compress matter?
We don't know.
leroyjenkens said:
It seems to me, the most you can compress matter would be until the individual subatomic particles are side by side touching each other.
That would be a neutron star. Electrons and protons are mashed together to form neutrons, neutrons are packed elbow to elbow.
leroyjenkens said:
Are black holes compressed more than that?
Yes.
leroyjenkens said:
Are they compressed so tight that the subatomic particles are squeezed into a smaller state than they exist naturally?
Yes.
 
That would be a neutron star. Electrons and protons are mashed together to form neutrons, neutrons are packed elbow to elbow.
Yeah that's what I thought. I guess the neutrons must be compressed smaller by causing the particles that make up a neutron to move closer together?
 
Just to expand on DaveC426913's "don't knows", General Relativity says that a black hole compresses to a single point of infinite density. Quantum Theory says that's impossible. So until someone finds a theory that supersedes both General Relativity and Quantum Theory, we really don't know.
 
Just to expand on DaveC426913's "don't knows", General Relativity says that a black hole compresses to a single point of infinite density.
Black holes appear to be bigger than that. What is the visible part of the black hole, other than the singularity?
 
leroyjenkens said:
DrGreg said:
Just to expand on DaveC426913's "don't knows", General Relativity says that a black hole compresses to a single point of infinite density.
Black holes appear to be bigger than that. What is the visible part of the black hole, other than the singularity?
Yes, I was referring specifically to the singularity at the centre of a black hole (which is where all its mass is). The surface around the singularity through which nothing can escape outwards is called the event horizon. (It has no physical substance but is just a location in space.) Strictly speaking, it isn't "visible" because it's black!
 

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