How are they differentiating this ODE?

In summary, the conversation discusses differentiating with respect to a function and the confusion regarding the notation in the given differential equation. The participants ultimately come to the conclusion that the notation is inconsistent and clarify that x is indeed a function and can be plotted as a function of time.
  • #1
JG89
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They give a differential equation: [itex] x' = f_a(x) = ax(1-x) [/itex]. In determining if the equilibrium points are sources or sinks, they say: We may also determine this information analytically. We have [itex] f'_a(x) = a - 2ax [/itex]

How can they differentiate with respect to x? x is a function, it doesn't represent a point on the real line. I tried assuming that they really mean [itex] x'(t) = f_a(x(t)) = ax(t)(1 - x(t)) [/itex], but that would mean that [itex] x''(t) = f'_a(x(t)) = ax'(t) - 2ax(t)x'(t) [/itex], which according to the book is wrong.

What's going on here?
 
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  • #2
Differentiating with respect to a function is not a problem.

1st pass - mistake in notation?
Well x'=1 if we take the primed notation to indicate differentiation in x. Perhaps that's supposed to be a dot? Then I can put v = x' = dx/dt right?

That would mean that v = ax(1 - x) and and you can certainly differentiate speed with respect to space to give: dv/dx = a - 2ax

Of course this means that the notation is inconsistent.
I think it's pretty clear that they are differentiating f with respect to x. For the first it's not so clear from the example what is intended ... I mean where they came from is something like x=(0.5)ax²(1-x)-ax+c ... which is only true for at most three values of x. So there is something missing from the description here.

2nd pass: your analysis holds but recalling that x'=dx(t)/dx=1 then x''=0 and your equation simplifies to:

0 = f'(x(t)) = a - 2ax(t)

... isn't that what they have?

3rd pass ... If the prime implies d/dt (JIC) always then ...

f = ax - ax² = x'
f' = ax' -2ax.x' = af -2axf = ax(1-x-2x²) (check - not what they have)

I think we need context but it really looks like they have differentiated f wrt x not t.
 
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  • #3
I know they're differentiating with respect to x, that's exactly what I have a problem with. As far as I know, the usual derivative of a map requires the domain to be a subset of [itex] \mathbb{R}^n [/itex], but the x that they are differentiating with respect to is a function, it's not a real number, or an n-tuple of real numbers. Shouldn't [itex] x in \mathbb{R}^n [/itex] if we're differentiating with respect to x?
 
  • #4
So you are telling me that x is not in [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex]?
What is it's domain then? You could, in principle, plot a graph of x vs t right?

Are you saying that if y=f(x(t)) you can't do dy/dx?
 
  • #5
Wow, now I feel silly. I confused the hell outta myself, I should've known better. Thanks for the replies.
 
  • #6
No worries - you've been thinking too hard go have a drink.
 

1. What is an ODE?

An ODE, or ordinary differential equation, is a mathematical equation that describes the relationship between an unknown function and its derivatives. It is commonly used to model various physical phenomena in science and engineering.

2. How do you differentiate an ODE?

Differentiating an ODE involves applying the rules of differentiation to both sides of the equation. This allows us to solve for the derivatives of the unknown function and obtain a solution to the ODE.

3. What is the difference between an ODE and a PDE?

An ODE involves derivatives of a single independent variable, while a PDE (partial differential equation) involves derivatives of multiple independent variables. ODEs are commonly used to model single-variable systems, while PDEs are used to model more complex, multi-variable systems.

4. What are the methods for solving ODEs?

There are several methods for solving ODEs, including separation of variables, substitution, integration, and series solutions. The appropriate method to use depends on the type of ODE and its initial/boundary conditions.

5. What are some real-world applications of ODEs?

ODEs are used in various fields of science and engineering to model physical systems, such as population growth, chemical reactions, and heat transfer. They are also used in economics, finance, and other fields to model changing systems over time.

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