How Can I Maximize a Functional with a Bounded Integral Constraint?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around maximizing a functional subject to a bounded integral constraint, specifically in the context of functional analysis and calculus of variations. Participants explore methods and approaches, including the use of Lagrange multipliers, to tackle this problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks straightforward information on maximizing a functional with a bounded integral constraint, suggesting a connection to Lagrange multipliers.
  • Another participant questions how to find the minimum of a function subject to a constraint, wondering if similar techniques apply to functionals.
  • Some participants propose that setting the functional derivative to zero is a potential approach, but express uncertainty about how to incorporate constraints.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of checking both interior and boundary conditions when looking for extrema of the functional.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of ensuring that any maximum found is valid within the region defined by the constraint.
  • Another participant suggests that the problem can be reduced to maximizing a function of lambda subject to constraints after applying Lagrange multipliers.
  • There is a realization that the functional may be maximized on the boundary of the defined region.
  • Participants discuss how to express the problem in terms of lambda and the implications for maximizing the functional.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to check both interior and boundary conditions when maximizing the functional. However, there is no consensus on the specific methods to apply or the implications of the results, as different approaches and uncertainties are expressed throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the need to clarify the definitions of the functions involved, as well as the specific forms of the functionals and constraints. There are unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on assumptions that remain unaddressed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in functional analysis, calculus of variations, and optimization techniques within mathematical contexts, particularly in relation to bounded integral constraints.

saminator910
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Can anyone tell me straightforward information about a way to maximize a certain functional I[f]=\displaystyle\int_{X} L(f,x)dx such that the integral is bounded, T≥\displaystyle\int_{X}f(x)h(x)dx. I really know a minimal amount about functional analysis and calculus of variations, but I've looked at things like Hamiltonians and I don't know if they apply to this problem. Intuitively I see this as a problem that would be solved with Lagrange multipliers if it we weren't talking about functions and functionals, ie \vec{f}\cdot \vec{h}=T is a linear constraint, ∇I(x_{1},...,x_{n})=\lambda \vec{h}. We would then solve systems of equations \lambda h_{i}=\frac{\partial I}{\partial x_{i}}. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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How would you find the minimum of any (continuous and differentiable) function f(x) subject to the condition ##x^2 \leq 1##? Can you do something similar for functionals?
 
My guess would be a functional derivative equal to 0, but all the problems I've looked at don't have a constraint.
 
saminator910 said:
My guess would be a functional derivative equal to 0

Well, for a function you would put the derivative equal to zero. When considering functionals you would put the functional derivative equal to zero. The question is what you would do with the constraints? Is the derivative equal to zero anywhere if the function is ##f(x) = x##? Where is the corresponding minumum?
 
So, the extreme values are at the boundary?
 
Not necessarily, but they might be. Hence, you need to minimise the functional both in the interior as well as on the boundary. The minimum value is the minimal value of these.
 
Ok, so from what I've read I set \frac{\delta I}{\delta f(x)}=\frac{\partial L}{\partial f}=0, the derivative is in this specific form because L is not a function of f'. Mathematically I don't know how to incorporate the constraint. So, if I don't arrive at a max that satisfies the constraint, then I check the boundary cases?
 
You need to check the boundary in all cases. Even if you find a maximum inside the region, it might be a local maximum. You need to check that any maximum you find (a) is inside the region and (b) is a maximum and not another kind of extremum. In addition, you need to check the boundary of the region of functions which fulfill your criterion. The boundary is given by "integral = T". Do you know how to use Lagrange multipliers? The problem constrained to the boundary is exactly equivalent to extremisation with constraints in a finite dimensional vector space.
 
You need to check the boundary in all cases. Even if you find a maximum inside the region, it might be a local maximum. You need to check that any maximum you find (a) is inside the region and (b) is a maximum and not another kind of extremum. In addition, you need to check the boundary of the region of functions which fulfill your criterion. The boundary is given by "integral = T". Do you know how to use Lagrange multipliers? The problem constrained to the boundary is exactly equivalent to extremisation with constraints in a finite dimensional vector space.
 
  • #10
Yeah, take a look at the bottom of my original question, I thought about using Lagrange multipliers, I just have no idea about how to get rid of the lambda? once I set the functional derivative of the constraint equal to the functional derivative of the boundary multiplied by lambda, and get a solution in terms of lambda, what do I do next?
 
  • #11
Just the same as you would do in a finite vector space. You fix lambda such that the constraint is satisfied.

It strikes me now that you may not have to check the interior separately. You will find a lambda dependent value and find the maximum value of the functional such that the constraint is fulfilled. In other words, you will have reduced the problem to maximising a function of lambda subject to some constraints.
 
  • #12
Ok, that makes sense. Now what I'm realizing is my functionals and constraint are such that the functional for the region will be maximized on the boundary.
 
  • #13
saminator910 said:
Ok, that makes sense. Now what I'm realizing is my functionals and constraint are such that the functional for the region will be maximized on the boundary.

This actually does not matter much. The method just described will reduce the problem to maximising a function of lambda subject to constraints, and we already know how to do that for functions.

Edit: May I ask what your L and h are?
 
  • #14
So, I have an expression 0=A (f,x,\lambda) after setting \frac{\delta I}{\delta f}=\lambda \frac{\delta J}{\delta f} (where J is the functional that is set equal to constraint T), so I maximize what w.r.t. what? I really appreciate the help, I'm back from college for the summer so I don't have easy access to teachers.

edit:

Ok, so I have found f(x,\lambda), so now I just find f such that T=\displaystyle \int_{X} f(x,\lambda)h(x)dx
 
Last edited:
  • #15
Oncle you have f(x,lambda), you can insert it into the functionals to define ##I(\lambda) = I[f(*,\lambda)]## and ##J(\lambda) = J[f(*,\lambda)]##. Your problem is now to maximise the function ##I(\lambda)## under the constraint ##J(\lambda) \leq T##.
 

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