How can I show that there is exactly one f?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating the existence and uniqueness of a continuous function \( f \) for \( x > 0 \) that satisfies the integral equation \( f(x) = 1 + \frac{1}{x} \int_{1}^{x} f(t) dt \). Participants explore various approaches, including the use of differential equations and theorems related to uniqueness of solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests deriving the integral equation to obtain a first-order ordinary differential equation (ODE) \( y' = \frac{1}{x} \) with the initial condition \( y(1) = 1 \), which has a unique solution \( y = 1 + \ln x \).
  • Another participant questions whether uniqueness can be established without first finding the solution, referencing Picard's theorem regarding the existence and uniqueness of solutions to ODEs under certain conditions.
  • There is a discussion about whether to assume two functions \( f \) and \( g \) satisfy the same integral equation and whether initial conditions can lead to the conclusion that \( f(x) = g(x) \) for all \( x > 0 \).
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of a theorem related to second-order differential equations to the first-order ODE derived from the integral equation, highlighting a potential misunderstanding of the relevant theorems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods to establish uniqueness and the applicability of various theorems. There is no consensus on the best approach to demonstrate the uniqueness of the solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific theorems and conditions for uniqueness, but there are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions and theorems applicable to the problem at hand.

evinda
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Hello! :)
I wanted to ask you how I can show that there is exactly one $f$ continuous for $x>0$,so that $f(x)=1+\frac{1}{x}\int_{1}^{x}f(t)dt, \forall x>0$.Is there a theorem that I could use?Or do I have just to suppose that there is a $g\neq f$,which satisfy $g(x)=1+\frac{1}{x}\int_{1}^{x}g(t)dt, \forall x>0$ and then to conclude that it must be $g(x)=f(x)$ ?
 
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evinda said:
Hello! :)
I wanted to ask you how I can show that there is exactly one $f$ continuous for $x>0$,so that $f(x)=1+\frac{1}{x}\int_{1}^{x}f(t)dt, \forall x>0$.Is there a theorem that I could use?Or do I have just to suppose that there is a $g\neq f$,which satisfy $g(x)=1+\frac{1}{x}\int_{1}^{x}g(t)dt, \forall x>0$ and then to conclude that it must be $g(x)=f(x)$ ?

Setting f(x) = y and deriving the expression, with a little arrangement You arrive to the ODE...

$\displaystyle y^{\ '} = \frac{1}{x},\ y(1)=1\ (1)$

... which has the only solution $y=1 + \ln x$...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
chisigma said:
Setting f(x) = y and deriving the expression, with a little arrangement You arrive to the ODE...

$\displaystyle y^{\ '} = \frac{1}{x},\ y(1)=1\ (1)$

... which has the only solution $y=1 + \ln x$...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$

Can't I show the uniqueness of the solution,before finding it? :confused:
 
evinda said:
Can't I show the uniqueness of the solution,before finding it? :confused:

The ODE is in the form...

$\displaystyle \frac{d y}{d x} = f(x,y),\ y(x_{0})=y_{0}\ (1)$

... where f(*,*) and its first order partial derivatives are continuous in $(x_{0},y_{0})$, so that the (1) has one and only one solution [Picard's theorem...]

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
So,do I have to take the functions $f(x)=1+\frac{1}{x}\int_{1}^{x}f(t)dt$ and $g(x)=1+\frac{1}{x}\int_{1}^{x}g(t)dt$ and say:
$g(1)=f(1) \text{ and } g'(1)=f'(1)$ ,and so we conclude that $f(x)=g(x) \forall x>0$?Or am I wrong? :confused:
 
evinda said:
So,do I have to take the functions $f(x)=1+\frac{1}{x}\int_{1}^{x}f(t)dt$ and $g(x)=1+\frac{1}{x}\int_{1}^{x}g(t)dt$ and say:
$g(1)=f(1) \text{ and } g'(1)=f'(1)$ ,and so we conclude that $f(x)=g(x) \forall x>0$?Or am I wrong? :confused:

The theorem is like that:
$f,g$ satisfy $y''+by=0 $ , $f(x_{0})=g(x_{0}),f'(x_{0})=g'(x_{0})$ $\Rightarrow$ $f(x)=g(x) \forall x \in (-\infty,+\infty)$ .Right?So,is it applicable in this case,or not?
 
chisigma said:
Setting f(x) = y and deriving the expression, with a little arrangement You arrive to the ODE...

$\displaystyle y^{\ '} = \frac{1}{x},\ y(1)=1\ (1)$

evinda said:
The theorem is like that:
$f,g$ satisfy $y''+by=0 $ , $f(x_{0})=g(x_{0}),f'(x_{0})=g'(x_{0})$ $\Rightarrow$ $f(x)=g(x) \forall x \in (-\infty,+\infty)$ .Right?So,is it applicable in this case,or not?
chisigma says that the original integral equation is reducible to a first-order differential equation, while you are quoting a theorem about second-order differential equations... I am not sure whether it makes sense to clarify the assumptions of the Picard–Lindelöf theorem or explain the difference between 1 and 2... I've seen evidence that you can solve complicated problems. Please give more thought to your posts.
 

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