How Can Monotone Functions Have Only Countably Many Discontinuities?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of monotone increasing functions, specifically focusing on the nature of their discontinuities. Participants explore how to demonstrate that the set of points of discontinuity is at most countable, engaging in mathematical reasoning and proposing various approaches to define a mapping from these points to the rationals.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes defining a function g that maps points of discontinuity of a monotone increasing function to rational numbers, but seeks clarification on how to handle irrational points.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to recognize that discontinuities in increasing functions are "jump" discontinuities, where left and right limits exist and differ.
  • A suggestion is made to define g(xi) as a rational number in the interval between the left and right limits of the discontinuity, asserting that such a rational number exists.
  • Concerns are raised about the explicit definition of g and how it accounts for irrational points of discontinuity.
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which the mapping remains one-to-one, with one asserting that if the intervals defined by the limits overlap, the mapping may not be valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and construction of the function g, as well as the implications of overlapping intervals on the one-to-one nature of the mapping. No consensus is reached regarding the best approach to demonstrate the countability of the set of discontinuities.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not fully resolve the assumptions regarding the behavior of the limits at points of discontinuity or the implications of the mapping's definition on the countability of discontinuities.

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i have a function f:R->R where f is monotone increasing, i need to show that the set of discontinuous points of f is at most countable.
so i need to find an injective or 1-1 mapping from this set to the naturals, or to the rationals.
i thought perhaps defining the next function g:A->Q, where A is the set of discontinuous points of f, by:
let x0 be in A, so lim(x>x0)f(x)>lim(x<x0)f(x)
g(x0)=x0 if x0 is in Q
but how do i define for points which arent in Q?

thanks in advance.
 
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First, the correct phrase is "points of discontinuity of f", not "discontinuous points". Points are not "continuous" or "discontinuous", only functions are!

Have you already shown that a discontinuity of an increasing function must be a "jump" discontinuity- that is, that the left and right limits exist but are different? You need that to be able to talk about "lim(x>x0)f(x)>lim(x<x0)f(x)". But I don't see how your idea is going to work. Your g(x) doesn't actually use "lim(x>x0)f(x)>lim(x<x0)f(x)" It just says g(x)= x if f is discontinuous at x- and assumes f is discontinous at x! You mistake is looking at the domain instead of the range.

Try this. Let [itex]lim_{x\rightarrow x_0^-} f(x)= a[/itex], [itex]lim_{x\rightarrow x_0^+} f(x)= b[/itex]. Since f has only "jump" discontinuities, those exist and a< b. There exist at least one rational number in the interval (a,b). Let g(x0) be such a rational number. Because f is an increasing function, if x0, x1 are points of discontinuities of f, x1> x0, then the "a" corresponding to x1 is greater than the "b" corresponding to x0: the two intervals do not overlap and so [itex]g(x_0)< g(x_1)[/itex]. g is a one-to-one function from A to a subset of Q.
 
how have you defined the function g, i mean i don't see any explicit definition of the function, and how do you deal with points of discontinuity which are irrational, obviously they arent mapped into Q.
 
All I can do is repeat what I said- If xi is a point of discontinuity of the increasing function f. Then [itex]lim_{x\rightarrow x_i^-} f(x)= a_i[/itex], [itex]lim_{x\rightarrow x_i^+} f(x)= b_i[/itex] exist and ai< bi.
Choose a rational number yi in the interval (a,b). Such a rational number certainly exists, just choose one. Define g(xi)= yi. Since, if xj> xi, as I said before, since f is increasing, bi< aj so the intervals do not overlap and [itex]y_j\ne y_i[/itex]. g is a one-to-one function from the set of points of discontinuity of f into Q. Whether xi is rational or not is irrelevant. The corresponding g(xi) is yi which is, by definition, rational.
 
shouldn't it be:
b_i>a_j?
 
No! That's the whole point. If [itex]a_j< b_i< b_j[/itex] then the two intervals overlap so it's possble that [itex]y_i= y_j[/itex] and the function may not be one-to-one.

Because f is increasing, if [itex]x_i< x_j[/itex], then the limit at xi from above must be less than the limit at xj from below: [itex]b_i< a_j[/itex].
 

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