How can we prove that integers can be defined as odd or even?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Alpharup
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    even Integers
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of how to prove that integers can be classified as odd or even, extending from the established classification of natural numbers. Participants explore various approaches and proofs, including the use of modular arithmetic and the Euclidean algorithm, while addressing the challenges of applying these concepts to negative integers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that Spivak's definition of natural numbers allows for proving that every natural number is either odd or even, but questions how to extend this to integers.
  • Another participant suggests that for a negative integer, one can express it in terms of a positive integer using the relationship with remainders when divided by a natural number.
  • It is proposed that the Euclidean algorithm could be used to demonstrate the possible remainders when dividing an integer by another integer.
  • A different proof approach is presented, involving the contradiction of a non-null set of integers that cannot be expressed in the form of 3n, 3n+1, or 3n+2.
  • One participant challenges the validity of a claim regarding the smallest member of non-null sets, clarifying that this property holds for natural numbers rather than integers.
  • There is a discussion about how to handle negative integers by substituting -n for positive integers and how this relates to the established forms of integers.
  • Participants agree that when dividing an integer by a natural number, the possible remainders are limited to a specific range, reinforcing the argument for classification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to establish a proof for integers based on the classification of natural numbers. However, there are multiple competing views on the methods to achieve this, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to handle negative integers.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations in their proofs, particularly regarding the applicability of certain properties to integers versus natural numbers. There is also a recognition that the proofs may not fully address all cases without additional assumptions or clarifications.

Alpharup
Messages
226
Reaction score
17
Iam working through Spivak calculus now.
The book defines natural numbers as of form N=1,2,3,4...
Iam able to prove that every natural number is either odd or even. How can I extend to Z, integers?
In one of the problems, Spivak says we can write any integer of the form 3n, 3n+1, 3n+2.( n is integer) He gives as hint to the problem.But am not convinced,
In general how can we prove that if m is a natural number, n is an integer, then
any integer can be expressed of the form km, km+1, km+2, km+3,...,km+(k-1)?
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
If you have a negative integer n = -m, and k>0, then there are integers q,r, with 0≤r<k such that m = kq + r.
What can you then say about n?

(Hint: r = k - (k - r) ).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Alpharup
Like Erland suggested, it basically comes down to the fact that an integer m divided by n, can have possible remainders 0,1,...m-1. As he suggested, you can use the Euclidean algorithm to prove this.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Alpharup
Spivak has not mentioned about Euclid algorithm. Could you help me with some other way?
 
Last edited:
I did think of alternate proof like this. Let A be a set of integers which can't be expressed of the form 3n, 3n+1, 3n+2: where n is an integer
Every non-null set of integers has a smallest member. Let it be s.
Consider s-1. s-1 must be expressed of the form 3n, 3n+1, 3n+2. Orelse, it belongs to A, resulting in contradiction.
Now the proof involves equating s-1 to either of these 3 forms: 3n, 3n+1,3n+2
By equating we can easily find that, s is of the form 3n, 3n+1, 3n+2. Hence s does not belong to A. A is null set. So, every integer exists of this form.
 
Nitpick:
sharan swarup said:
Every non-null set of integers has a smallest member. Let it be s.
This is not correct. Every non-null set of natural numbers has a smallest member.

Your proof only works for positive integers, but of course once you have it for positive integers, you can easily extend it to all integers (by considering -n if n is negative).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Alpharup
Yeah...you are right...we can prove for natural numbers( positive integers) . For negative integers, we can sustidute -n. I tried proving s does not belong to A. I can easily prove -s does not belong to A. but what about s?
 
sharan swarup said:
Yeah...you are right...we can prove for natural numbers( positive integers) . For negative integers, we can sustidute -n. I tried proving s does not belong to A. I can easily prove -s does not belong to A. but what about s?
You have established that each natural number n can be expressed as 3k, 3k+1 or 3k+2.
If n is a negative integer, -n is positive. So -n can be expressed as 3k, 3k+1 or 3k+2.
Just as an example, say -n=3k+1, then n=-3k-1.
We don't like that -1, but that is easily fixed: n=-3(k+1)+3-1=3(-k-1)+2.

But it really boils down to what @Erland and @WWGD said before: when you divide an integer by a natural number m, the remainder can only be 0,1,2, ..., m-1.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Alpharup
nailed it...thanks
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
922
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K