How did Sommerfeld arrive at his quantum condition?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the derivation of the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantum condition, specifically the equation integral (p.dx) over closed path = nh. Participants highlight that Sommerfeld built upon Bohr's 1913 motion quantization rule, introducing concepts such as "motion invariants" and transitioning from circular to elliptical orbits. The discussion also touches on the historical context of William Nicholson's contributions to angular momentum quantization, questioning why Bohr's name is more prominently associated with these ideas despite Nicholson's earlier work. Key insights include Sommerfeld's mathematical approach to harmonic motion and the significance of phase-space volumes in quantum mechanics.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of classical mechanics principles, particularly harmonic motion.
  • Familiarity with quantum mechanics terminology, including quantization and angular momentum.
  • Knowledge of the historical development of atomic models, specifically Bohr's and Nicholson's contributions.
  • Basic grasp of mathematical concepts related to integrals and phase-space volumes.
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the derivation of the Bohr-Sommerfeld quantum condition in detail.
  • Study the implications of "motion invariants" in classical and quantum mechanics.
  • Investigate the historical significance of William Nicholson's work on angular momentum quantization.
  • Learn about the Liouville equation and its relevance to phase-space volumes in quantum mechanics.
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, students of quantum mechanics, and historians of science interested in the evolution of atomic theory and the foundational concepts of quantum conditions.

Half Infinity
Messages
7
Reaction score
1
Wherever I read, they just simply state the Bohr-Sommerfeld or the Wilson-Sommerfeld quantum condition to be

integral (p.dx) over closed path = nh

But nowhere can I find the insight using which Sommerfeld arrived at this equation. I mean, he could'nt have just guessed that. There must have been some logical thought process for it. What was that?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: jbergman
Physics news on Phys.org
I think the major breakthrough was Bohr's motion quantization rule of 1913. Sommerfeld was just a professor of classical mechanics who took the next logical steps after Bohr (elipsis instead of circles, special relativity and not Galilean relativity) and added "motion invariants" to it. I mean I don't want to belittle his work, but if Bohr had not described the atom 2 years before him, it would be unlikely to think he would have produced his work.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
What are "motion invariants"?

How exactly do L = nh/2π and integral(p.dx) = nh connect? I know the way de Broglie explained it, but that was much later. How did Sommerfeld connect those?

And at last, how did Bohr himself got his quantum condition? Wikipedia states that William Nicholson was the person who first introduced quantization of angular momentum. How did then he arrive at it? And why do we connect Bohr's name to it instead of Nicholson?
 
Half Infinity said:
Wherever I read, they just simply state the Bohr-Sommerfeld or the Wilson-Sommerfeld quantum condition to be

integral (p.dx) over closed path = nh

But nowhere can I find the insight using which Sommerfeld arrived at this equation. I mean, he could'nt have just guessed that. There must have been some logical thought process for it. What was that?
E/(frequency)=nh is the area of an ellipse that describes a phase plane for harmonic motion of an object with mass like an electron. It is my understanding that Sommerfeld noticed this correspondence. He started with the equation for harmonic motion E = (p^2) / (2 * m) + (k / 2) q^2 (where p is momentum and q is position) and rearranged it in a form that looks like the equation for an ellipse 1=(x^2)/(a^2) + (y^2)/(b^2). Then he pulled out a and b from this equation and plugged them into the equation for the area of ellipse area=pi*a*b and that can be shown to be equal to nh.

I am paraphrasing this explanation from the book "what is quantum mechanics a physics adventure" which goes through the math and explains it in a simple straight forward manner.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dextercioby and gentzen
dextercioby said:
I think the major breakthrough was Bohr's motion quantization rule of 1913. Sommerfeld was just a professor of classical mechanics who took the next logical steps after Bohr (elipsis instead of circles, special relativity and not Galilean relativity) and added "motion invariants" to it. I mean I don't want to belittle his work, but if Bohr had not described the atom 2 years before him, it would be unlikely to think he would have produced his work.
What are "motion invariants"?

How exactly do L = nh/2π and integral(p.dx) = nh connect? I know the way de Broglie explained it, but that was much later. How did Sommerfeld connect those?

And at last, how did Bohr himself got his quantum condition? Wikipedia states that William Nicholson was the person who first introduced quantization of angular momentum. How did then he arrive at it? And why do we connect Bohr's name to it instead of Nicholson?
 
I think the heuristics behind this is the Liouville equation, i.e., that the invariants of motion are phase-space volumes. Then there was the example of the harmonic oscillator (originally in Planck's description of the em. field and Einstein's subsequent reinterpretation as "light quanta", i.e., the description of the free em. field as a collection of independent harmonic oscillators).

The harmonic-oscillator example was then postulated to generalize to all kinds of (quasi-)periodic motions.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dextercioby
Half Infinity said:
And at last, how did Bohr himself got his quantum condition? Wikipedia states that William Nicholson was the person who first introduced quantization of angular momentum. How did then he arrive at it? And why do we connect Bohr's name to it instead of Nicholson?
The current German version of his wikipedia entry puts the facts in a plausible order:
original German quote said:
1911 schlug er – unabhängig von Ernest Rutherford und anderen – einen dem Planetensystem ähnliches Modell des Atoms vor, mit dem Atomkern im Zentrum. Sein Modell hatte aber auch noch Elemente des Atommodells von J. J. Thomson, bei dem die positive Ladung über das Atom verteilt war und die Elektronen darin verteilt. ...

Nach Eric Scerri war er der Erste, der die Quantisierung des Drehimpulses (in Einheiten der reduzierten Planck-Konstante) vorschlug, in diesem Fall von Elektronen in Atomen. Das beeinflusste wahrscheinlich auch Niels Bohr in der Entwicklung seines eigenen Modells. Bohr betrachtete die Theorie von Nicholson einerseits als ziemlich verrückt, benutzte sie aber auch als ein Modell von dem er sich mit seiner eigenen Theorie absetzte.[3]

3. ↑ Scerri,A tale of seven scientists, 2016, S. 34
English translation said:
In 1911, independently of Ernest Rutherford and others, he proposed a model of the atom similar to the planetary system, with the atomic nucleus at the center. But his model also had elements of J. J. Thomson's atom model, in which the positive charge was distributed over the atom and distributed the electrons within it. ...

According to Eric Scerri, he was the first to propose the quantization of angular momentum (in units of the reduced Planck constant), in this case of electrons in atoms. This probably also influenced Niels Bohr in the development of his own model. On the one hand, Bohr viewed Nicholson's theory as pretty crazy, but he also used it as a model from which he set himself apart with his own theory.
The English version of his wikipedia entry does not contradict that version, but still gives the story quite a different spin:
Nicholson is noted as the first to create an atomic model that quantized angular momentum as h/2π.[2][3] Nicholson was also the first to create a nuclear and quantum theory that explains spectral line radiation as electrons descend toward the nucleus, identifying hitherto unknown solar and nebular spectral lines.[4][5] Niels Bohr quoted him in his 1913 paper of the Bohr model of the atom.[6]

Career​

Based on the results of astronomical spectroscopy of nebula he proposed in 1911 the existence of several yet undiscovered elements. ...
One thing I did notice is that his motivation was interpretation of astronomical data, instead of better controlled laboratory data. Apparently this made it easier to come up with completely new ideas with a grain of truth, but harder to come up with a sufficiently plausible model that would be accepted for some time, and still remembered later.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 331 ·
12
Replies
331
Views
14K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
9K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 376 ·
13
Replies
376
Views
23K