How Do Baryons Emerge in the Standard Model Through Topological Effects?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the emergence of baryons in the Standard Model, particularly through the lens of topological effects and symmetry breaking. Participants explore concepts such as Goldstone bosons, scalar fields, and the role of skyrmions in this context, with a focus on theoretical implications and representations of symmetry groups.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that baryons enter the Standard Model through subtle topological effects, specifically referencing skyrmions and their relation to scalar fields with vacuum expectation values.
  • Another participant explains that when a global symmetry breaks, massless or light scalar particles emerge, which may include pseudo-Goldstone bosons, and discusses the representation of these particles in the context of symmetry groups.
  • There is a correction regarding the terminology used for particles, with one participant clarifying that "pseudoscalar" should be used in reference to pions, while another emphasizes that nucleons are fermions, not bosons.
  • Participants discuss the implications of reducible versus irreducible representations of symmetry groups, with one noting that Weinberg's statement about representations is not directly relevant to the discussion of baryons.
  • One participant seeks a simplified explanation of how baryons enter the Standard Model, indicating a desire for clarity amidst the technical details presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the concepts discussed, particularly regarding the nature of particles and the implications of symmetry breaking. There is no clear consensus on the explanations provided, and multiple competing views remain on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the complexity of effective field theories and the subtleties involved in the interactions of nucleons and pions at lower energies, indicating that the discussion is situated within a framework that may not capture all nuances of the physical situation.

Jim Kata
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I'm lazy so I'm going to start bringing my questions here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that baryons only enter the standard model through this subtle topological effect. Now this is where I'm at. I kind of got the Goldstone boson concept, maybe someone could better explain that to me too. Anyways, say you have scalar fields. Now, these scalar fields have a vacuum expectation value. To my understanding this is where the pion and pion's mass comes from? Now due to some topological effect "skyrmions" baryons also enter.
Let me paraphrase a line in Weinberg vol II I don't get "the fields may furnish a reducible rather than irreducible representation of G (some group before its symmetry is broken) as for instance became the case when we introduced the nucleon fields in the previous section.

So to me this means that baryons in some sense come from from the fact that the fields furnish a reducible rather than irreducible representation of group G.

Where G for example could be SO(4), Spin(4) or whatever is isomorphic to SU(3)XSU(3)

Could someone flesh these ideas out for me?
 
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When a global symmetry breaks, you expect some scalar particles to be massless (which may or may not be composites of fundamental fields). When an approximate global symmetry breaks you get light scalar particles (pseudo-Goldstones). When the symmetry group breaks from G to K, the massless or light bosons form a representation of the coset space G/K (elements of G that aren't elements of K). This represents the statement: "There is a (pseudo)Goldstone boson for each broken symmetry". You can look for topologically non-trivial field configurations by looking at fields as being a mapping from the space they inhabit to a representation space of some group. For example, you can look at the bosons forming a rep of G/K, and find topologically non-trivial configurations called skyrmions as described by Weinberg in Vol 2. In the physical case you mentioned, if you consider chiral symmetry to be an (approximate or exact) symmetry that's broken, the resulting (light or massless) bosons can be called "nucleons". Pions are vector bosons that mediate interaction of the "nucleons". This model is an effective field theory, and the particular framework is a type of "sigma model". We know that, in a technical sense, quarks and gluons compose nucleons and pions, though this view becomes very complicated and subtle at lower energies where the nucleons and pions are formed. For that reason people sometimes turn to effective sigma models, but their representation of the physical situation is approximate.
The statement about reducible vs irreducible representations is not directly relevant. Usually we label particle states with irreducible representations of groups (that commute with the Hamiltonian, so that they are "good" quantum numbers). But we're allowed, and it may be convenient, to talk about a field that happens to form a reducible representation with respect to some symmetry group. That's all Weinberg is pointing out.
 
javierR said:
When a global symmetry breaks, you expect some scalar particles to be massless (which may or may not be composites of fundamental fields). When an approximate global symmetry breaks you get light scalar particles (pseudo-Goldstones).

I take it you actually mean "pseudoscalar" particles... i.e. the pion.

javierR said:
When the symmetry group breaks from G to K, the massless or light bosons form a representation of the coset space G/K (elements of G that aren't elements of K). This represents the statement: "There is a (pseudo)Goldstone boson for each broken symmetry". You can look for topologically non-trivial field configurations by looking at fields as being a mapping from the space they inhabit to a representation space of some group. For example, you can look at the bosons forming a rep of G/K, and find topologically non-trivial configurations called skyrmions as described by Weinberg in Vol 2. In the physical case you mentioned, if you consider chiral symmetry to be an (approximate or exact) symmetry that's broken, the resulting (light or massless) bosons can be called "nucleons".

You mean "fermions" instead of "bosons" in this last sentence.

javierR said:
Pions are vector bosons that mediate interaction of the "nucleons".

Pions are pseudoscalar bosons, I would pick the rho meson for the primary vector boson field in the inter-nucleon potential. Just remember that other more massive I=1 and I=0 spin-0 and spin-1 particles can participate, just suppressed by their higher masses.
 
I kind of get what your saying, but let me phrase my question as simply as possible. How do baryons enter the standard model
 

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