How do W and Z particles conserve energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the conservation of energy in the context of beta decay and the role of W and Z bosons. Participants explore how the mass of virtual particles, particularly the W boson, affects energy conservation during particle interactions, delving into concepts such as virtual particles, on-shell and off-shell masses, and the implications of the Higgs field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how energy is conserved in beta decay, noting the W boson's mass and speculating on its origin from the Higgs field or the uncertainty principle.
  • Another participant explains that the W boson in beta decay is virtual and can have any mass, with its effective mass determined by the requirement for energy conservation.
  • It is noted that the probability of producing a virtual W boson decreases as its mass deviates from the nominal value of 80 GeV, leading to suppressed interactions mediated by W and Z bosons.
  • Discussion arises about the distinction between on-shell and off-shell masses, with participants clarifying that on-shell masses refer to real particles while off-shell masses can vary in interactions.
  • One participant provides an example involving the Higgs boson decaying into Z bosons, illustrating how one Z boson can be off-shell, thus affecting its mass in the context of the decay process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the distinction between on-shell and off-shell masses and the concept of virtual particles, but there is no consensus on the implications of these concepts for energy conservation in beta decay.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of mass definitions and the dependence on theoretical treatments, which may not be fully resolved in the discussion.

Dadface
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I have been looking at the Beta decay process and can't see how energy is conserved. The W boson, for example, is many times more massive than all of the other particles together. But how does that additional mass/energy come about and where does it go to? I'm guessing that it gets its mass from the Higgs field and or that it borrows its mass in accordance with the uncertainty principle.
I have found loads of sources describing Beta decay but none addressing energy conservation when the event is described in terms of Bosons. Thanks to anyone who replies.
 
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The W boson involved in beta decay is "virtual." Virtual particles can have any mass. The mass of the virtual W in beta decay is not 80 GeV but is determined by the requirement that energy be conserved.

However, the probability per unit time of producing a virtual W boson of a given mass is smaller the farther that mass is from 80 GeV. The mass of the virtual W boson in beta decay is quite far from 80 GeV, so the probability per unit time of beta decay is thus very small. All low-energy processes involving W bosons are suppressed in this way. This is why interactions mediated by W (and Z) bosons were named the "weak interaction."
 
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The mass doesn't even have to be a real number. It can be an imaginary number as well
 
Thank you but let me get this clear.If I'm understanding this correctly the W takes a mass such that energy is conserved, so it can have different masses for different events ( I can't think of other events involving Ws or Zs but I will do a search). Why then do the data tables quote a single value for the mass of each particle?
 
These are on shell masses. Or pole masses. For real particles

If you look at the data group you will actually see many mass definitions. For example you may see the MSbar mass etc.

So not only can particles not have their pole mass in an interaction (when they are virtual) but their mass also depends on the theoretical treatment.
 
An example is Higgs (126 GeV) which decays to two z bosons (91 GeV) which was one of the discovery channels (4 charged leptons).
One of the z bosons has to be off shell, so more like 35 GeV for example. This is fine since it can be virtual and produce two real charged leptons which are detected.

Hope this helps
 
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Thank you. I see that I need to do a bit of reading up on shell masses. Mrs Google here I come.
 
The on shell mass is what people usually understand by a particle's mass. The off shell mass may be different than the on shell mass.
 
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Thank you to everybody who replied. My main question has been answered. The concept of shell masses is new to me.
 

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