How do you pronounce these words?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the pronunciation of various English words, exploring differences in dialects and individual speech patterns. Participants share their personal pronunciations and compare them to others, with a focus on American English but open to other dialects as well.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants pronounce "father" and "farther" differently, noting an /r/ sound in "farther."
  • Pronunciations of "witch" and "which" vary, with some stating they pronounce them the same.
  • Differences in the pronunciation of "sot" and "sought" are noted, with some indicating that "sought" has a longer vowel sound.
  • Variations in the pronunciation of "cot" and "caught" are discussed, with some participants indicating they sound the same while others differentiate them.
  • Participants express differing views on the words "bawdy" and "body," with some noting a longer vowel in "bawdy."
  • There are multiple interpretations of the vowel sounds in "Mary," "merry," and "marry," with some participants identifying distinct differences among them.
  • One participant discusses the impact of regional accents on pronunciation, suggesting that some words may sound the same in certain dialects.
  • Another participant raises questions about how vowel sounds change when followed by /r/, suggesting that this phenomenon is complex and varies among speakers.
  • Some participants mention the challenges of English pronunciation compared to tonal languages, like Mandarin, highlighting the complexity of English phonetics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of pronunciations for the listed words, with no consensus on how many of the words are pronounced the same or differently. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of these pronunciations and the factors influencing them.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that their pronunciations may be influenced by regional accents and personal speech habits. There is also mention of the complexity of vowel sounds and their variations when followed by /r/, which remains a topic of exploration without definitive conclusions.

  • #31
loseyourname said:
My aunt lived the first 35 years of her life in SoCal, then moved to Wisconsin about 10 years ago or so. She speaks like a native Upper-Midwesterner. Same thing happened to my cousin when she moved to Missouri. It's funny because she doesn't even realize that she sounds any different.


My daughter, who was born in Indiana and grew up in Illinoois, has been in Wisconsin for 15 years. She used to say that when she visited us in Illinois for Christmas, her workmates would kid her about her "southern accent" when she got back. She couldn't hear the difference either.
 
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  • #32
honestrosewater said:
My linguistics book says that some people pronounce the following words differently, but it doesn't say how these people pronounce the words! So... what do you do?

(I think they're talking about American English, but any English dialect is welcome.)

witch - which
horse - hoarse
morning - mourning
sot - sought
cot - caught
bawdy - body
father - farther
Mary - merry - marry
poor - pour - pore

I pronounce father and farther differently - there's an /r/ sound after the a, as in far, in the latter. There's no consistent difference in my pronunciations of the others.
Fire - far :biggrin: , down in the south sometimes.
 
  • #33
It's commonly the case that Midwesterners and people from the West Coast (of the US) will not distinguish between /a/ and what is called the "open o." You'll find the difference most noticable in the a New Yorker saying "coffee" and a Wisconsinite saying the same thing. The open o is basically a little more rounded. We discussed the Mary, merry, marry example and came up with one of the pronunciations is a raised r-colored epsilon, one is a normal r-colored epsilon and I don't exactly remember the last (ash perhaps?). I'm not sure which one is which, beause I pronounce them all the same. Any ideas?
 
  • #34
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Flyer said:
It's commonly the case that Midwesterners and people from the West Coast (of the US) will not distinguish between /a/ and what is called the "open o." You'll find the difference most noticable in the a New Yorker saying "coffee" and a Wisconsinite saying the same thing. The open o is basically a little more rounded.
Yeah, I've learned a little more about it, though I still don't have a clear, um, 'picture' of it. I can't find my notes now, but I remember seeing it used for north in the English narrow transcription in the (pg. 44). (Do you have it? I thought about getting it, but I'm not sure I'll even use most of it.) In a transcription for my own personal use, I'm using /ɔ/ for cold, though it may be an allophone - do you know? I haven't gotten that far yet. Sorry I'm rambling - I'm just excited to meet you. I think everyone else I've checked uses /kold/, but I don't pronounce it that way - I would say their /kold/ more like /'koəld/ or maybe with a syllabic /l/ or maybe just a short /o/. Eh. But I guess they're broad anyway. So far, I'm only using my personal system for a broad transcription. Rhoticity is the only diacritic I'm using, and only for the following vowels:

/i/ beard
/e/ bared
/a/ barred
/ɔ/ bored
/ə/ bird
/aI/ buyer

I just mention it in case you have an opinion about my choices. I'd love to get some feedback. I spent quite a while trying to figure them out and make a decision.
We discussed the Mary, merry, marry example and came up with one of the pronunciations is a raised r-colored epsilon, one is a normal r-colored epsilon and I don't exactly remember the last (ash perhaps?). I'm not sure which one is which, beause I pronounce them all the same. Any ideas?
You discussed it!? :cool: Are you taking a class, working on your own, as a hobby...? I pronounce them all the same too. Broad transcriptions are given later in the chapter (I discovered too late) - the author's pronunciation and the 'more common' one:

word : author's : common
merry : mɛri : meri
marry : mæri : meri
Mary : meri : meri
__

rare : /rer/

is the only comparison I can find of author's other broad transcriptions. Is that close to what you had in mind?
 
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