How Do You Properly Approximate Terms in an Equation?

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hang
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Homework Statement
the question asks for the angle when the kinetic energy is one forth of the maximum kinetic energy. At first I equate :

gravitational potential energy + elastic potential energy + 1/4 maximum rotational energy= maximum rotational energy

then I assume that sin(theta)~theta and cos(theta)~ 1

However, the g value (gravity) just get cancelled and my answer is wrong which is as expected since I did not include g.

Where have I gone wrong? when the rotational energy is maximum, or when angular speed is maximum, do the system still has potential energy?
Relevant Equations
energy and moment of inertia
Two side-by-side diagrams of a pendulum of length L and mass m hung from a wall, with a horizontal spring of constant k attached to the mass and the wall; the left shows the pendulum vertical at x=0, the right shows it displaced by angle θ, with gravity g pointing down and axis i-hat pointing right.
Homework problem part c asking for the angular position theta(t1) at a time when kinetic energy is one quarter of its initial value; below it, a student's entered answer sqrt((3*m*omega_m)/(4*k)) rendered as the fraction square root of 3 m omega_m over 4 k, marked wrong with a red cross.
 
Hi,

hang said:
Where have I gone wrong?

Hard to say if you don't post the steps you take to find your answer ...

##\ ##
 
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hang said:
View attachment 281584
this is my working, sorry for the mess
You approximated ##\cos(\theta)## as 1, thereby throwing away a ##\theta^2## term, but kept the ##\theta^2## term from ##\sin^2(\theta)##.
 
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haruspex said:
You approximated ##\cos(\theta)## as 1, thereby throwing away a ##\theta^2## term, but kept the ##\theta^2## term from ##\sin^2(\theta)##.
I approximated sin(theta) as theta ; and cos(theta) as 1. So shouldn't the sin^2 (theta) become (theta)^2 ?

So is my assumption for the energy correct? maximum rotational speed happens when potential energy is 0

thank you
 
hang said:
I approximated sin(theta) as theta ; and cos(theta) as 1. So shouldn't the sin^2 (theta) become (theta)^2 ?
That's not the right way to think about making approximations. You can't make them that independently.
If your equation is a sum of terms equating to zero then you need to chop each term off at the same power. You have a ##\sin^2(\theta)## term, not a ##\sin(\theta)## term. You chopped it off at ##\theta^2##, so you need to do the same with the ##\cos(\theta)## term.
Note that it changes the answer.
 
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haruspex said:
That's not the right way to think about making approximations. You can't make them that independently.
If your equation is a sum of terms equating to zero then you need to chop each term off at the same power. You have a ##\sin^2(\theta)## term, not a ##\sin(\theta)## term. You chopped it off at ##\theta^2##, so you need to do the same with the ##\cos(\theta)## term.
Note that it changes the answer.
thank you so much, you are right. My approximation was wrong. And I also realized that I forgot to square the rotational speed in the equation. I really appreciate your help