How do you solve a goofy exponent problem using logarithms?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the equation $$3^x - 14 \cdot 3^{-x} = 5$$ using logarithmic methods. Participants explore different approaches to manipulate the equation, including expanding, rewriting, and applying logarithmic identities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose expanding the equation using logarithms, but express confusion about the steps leading to the solution provided by Wolfram Alpha (W|A).
  • One participant suggests multiplying through by \(3^x\) to rearrange the equation into a quadratic form, which can then be factored.
  • Another participant questions the application of logarithmic identities, specifically pointing out that $$\ln(a-b) \neq \ln(a) - \ln(b)$$ and that this leads to incorrect results.
  • Several participants attempt to rewrite the equation in terms of logarithms, but face challenges due to the misuse of logarithmic properties.
  • A participant suggests substituting \(y = 3^x\) to simplify the equation into a standard quadratic form, which can then be solved for \(y\).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct application of logarithmic identities. There are competing views on how to manipulate the original equation, with some participants correcting others' approaches without resolving the overall disagreement on the method.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the validity of logarithmic transformations and the steps leading to the solution. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions about the properties of logarithms that affect the discussion.

karush
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$$3^x-14\cdot 3^{-x}=5$$
so expanded
$$x\ln{3}-\ln 7-\ln 2 +x \ln 3=\ln 5$$
ok W|A says the answer is

$$\frac{\ln\left({7}\right)}{\ln\left({3}\right)}$$

don't see the steps how?
 
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karush said:
$$3^x-14\cdot 3^{-x}=5$$
so expanded
$$x\ln{3}-\ln 7-\ln 2 +x \ln 3=\ln 5$$
ok W|A says the answer is

$$\frac{\ln\left({7}\right)}{\ln\left({3}\right)}$$

don't see the steps how?

I would first multiply through by \(3^x\) and arrange as:

$$3^{2x}-5\cdot3^x-14=0$$

We should observe at this point that we have a quadratic in \(3^x\), and we can factor as:

$$\left(3^x-7\right)\left(3^x+2\right)=0$$

Discarding the negative root, we are left with:

$$3^x=7$$

or:

$$x=\log_3(7)$$

The change of base formula will give us the form cited by W|A.
 
well that was interesting

why doesn't ln thing work?

why are you up so late?
 
karush said:
well that was interesting

why doesn't ln thing work?

In a nutshell, you applied the rules of exponents/logs incorrectly.

karush said:
why are you up so late?

I'm usually up this late. :D
 
log(a- b) is NOT equal to log(a)- log(b) so your first step was wrong.
 
ok let me try the $\ln$ thing... given we have
$$3^x-14\cdot 3^{-x}=5$$
rewrite
$$3^x-\frac{14}{3^x}=5$$
$\ln$
$$\ln3^x-\ln\left(\frac{14}{3^x}\right)=\ln5$$
so far...
 
Last edited:
karush said:
ok let me try the $\ln$ thing... given we have
$$3^x-14\cdot 3^{-x}=5$$
rewrite
$$3^x-\frac{14}{3^x}=5$$
$\ln$ it
$$\ln3^x-\ln\left(\frac{14}{3^x}\right)=\ln5$$
so far...

As Country Boy pointed out, you cannot state:

$$\ln(a-b)=\log(a)-\log(b)$$

This isn't an identity, and will give you erroneous results if used.
 
karush said:
ok let me try the $\ln$ thing... given we have
$$3^x-14\cdot 3^{-x}=5$$
rewrite
$$3^x-\frac{14}{3^x}=5$$
$\ln$
$$\ln3^x-\ln\left(\frac{14}{3^x}\right)=\ln5$$
so far...
No, no, no! This is the same mistake you made before! log(a- b) is NOT log(a)- log(b)!

Instead Let $y= 3^x$ so that your equation is $y- \frac{14}{y}= 5$. To solve that equation. Multiply both sides by y: $y^2- 14= 5y$ which is the same as $y^2- 5y- 14= 0$. Solve that quadratic equation (it factors easily) to get two values for y. Then solve $3^x= y$ for those values of y (if possible) to find x.
 
Where is the ln(a-b)

$14\cdot3^{-x}=\frac{14}{3^x}$
 
  • #10
karush said:
ok let me try the $\ln$ thing... given we have
$$3^x-14\cdot 3^{-x}=5$$
rewrite
$$3^x-\frac{14}{3^x}=5$$
$\ln$
$$\ln3^x-\ln\left(\frac{14}{3^x}\right)=\ln5$$
It's right here! You go from $$3^x- \frac{14}{3^x}= 5$$
to $$\ln3^x-\ln\left(\frac{14}{3^x}\right)=\ln5$$.

Taking the logarithm of both sides of $3^x- \frac{14}{3^x}= 5$
would give $ln\left(3^x- \frac{14}{3^x}\right)= ln(5)$
which you then want to write as $ln(3^x)- ln\left(\frac{14}{3^x}\right)= ln(5)$
It is that last step where you have made a mistake.
 

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