How does consciousness affect our perception of gravity during sleep?

[jk22]

Since I suppose we all sleep sometimes, how can it be that during it we don't feel gravity for example (no noise no light) ?

Could it be that all those phenomena are state of mind dependent, kind of construct of the brain ?

Could this be linked to ideas of general relativity that gravity corresponds to a certain coordinate system change, so falling asleep could correspond to changing the system of coordinate so that we do not perceive gravity anymore ?

 

[PeroK]

so falling asleep could correspond to changing the system of coordinate so that we do not perceive gravity anymore ?

That just might be the craziest idea I've ever heard.

 

[jk22]

Yes I suppose its rather that the consciousness focuses on other stuff than sensitory organs like eyes, ears, internal ear, and those have only wake up signals remaining ?

 

[sysprog]

Here's a link to an article on sleep paralysis, the references in which article will provide avenues for further exploration of associated phenomena: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6208952/.

Introduction
During rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, we experience vivid dreams. If we were to act out these dreams, we would risk hurting ourselves. So the brain has an ingenious solution: it leaves our body temporarily paralyzed. This paralysis is triggered by the pons (the pontine reticular formation) and ventromedial medulla that suppress skeletal muscle tone via interneurons of the spinal cord, through the inhibitory neurotransmitters GABA and glycine (Brooks and Peever 2012; Jalal and Hinton 2013; Kandel et al. 2000). However, the perceptual and motor aspects of REM sleep can occasionally decouple such that the sleeper begins to awaken before muscle paralysis has waned. The result is a curious condition called sleep paralysis, where the person is temporarily paralyzed (from REM postural atonia)—yet perceptually alert (or semi-alert) (Hobson 1995). Sleep paralysis victims often complain of hypnogogic and hypnopompic hallucinations, such as seeing space aliens and shadow-people in their bedroom (Cheyne et al. 1999a, b; Jalal et al. 2014b, 2015a, 2017, in press[a]; Jalal and Ramachandran 2014, 2017; McNally and Clancy 2005).​

 

[DaveC426913]

What's wrong with the idea that we turn off our sensory processors when we sleep? It could be bright and noisy but if we don't process it, we sleep like a baby.

I know that sound penetrates my unconscious. And so does weight.

More than once I have dreamed that I've been trapped or captured and I make a heroic effort to escape, only to wake up and find that I had an arm or leg trapped under me and had rolled over in my sleep.
(The number of times I have come within an inch of clocking the wife with a fist or kick frightens me.)

 

[hutchphd]

I have had dreams of flying, but since I have never crashed into anything, I think gravity is probably still at work: flights of fancy is my working hypothesis.

 

[BillTre]

There are examples of sensory inhibition in a number of different animals.
Some bats can temporarially turn off hair cells (hearing sensory cell) via axons innervating the air cells (from brain to hair cell).
Some fish have similar innervation of their lateral line sensory cells.
The lateral line is related to the ear placode. The lateral line placodes migrate across the surface of the fish, from adjacent to the ear placode. Both placodes make or contain hair cells.

 

[jbriggs444]

Since I suppose we all sleep sometimes, how can it be that during it we don't feel gravity for example (no noise no light) ?

If one does not perceive gravity then it has no effect. The experimental evidence can be found in Road Runner cartoons.

 

[DennisN]

Since I suppose we all sleep sometimes, how can it be that during it we don't feel gravity for example (no noise no light) ?

If you are asleep and fall off your bed down on the floor and hurt yourself, you may feel the effect of gravity. And if you get bruises, you've also got experimental evidence (although indirect).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I have had dreams of flying, but since I have never crashed into anything, I think gravity is probably still at work: flights of fancy is my working hypothesis.

My father knew of a man in the Korean war who was sleeping on a B36 [or similar] when it was hit by enemy fire. He was sucked out the window at night at something like 30,000 feet. I have often wondered if he thought he was dreaming that he was flying...

 

[cmb]

Since I suppose we all sleep sometimes, how can it be that during it we don't feel gravity for example (no noise no light) ?

Could it be that all those phenomena are state of mind dependent, kind of construct of the brain ?

Could this be linked to ideas of general relativity that gravity corresponds to a certain coordinate system change, so falling asleep could correspond to changing the system of coordinate so that we do not perceive gravity anymore ?

I have had many a stressful dream of walking through treacle-like mud ... but I think that's just metaphorical for my life's experiences going through my head!

My dreams have gravity in, for sure. Falling, flying, climbing. And stairs, that get more and more difficult to get to the top of! Or is that just when I am conscious and it's been a long day? ;)

 

[Evo]

Since I suppose we all sleep sometimes, how can it be that during it we don't feel gravity for example (no noise no light) ?

Could it be that all those phenomena are state of mind dependent, kind of construct of the brain ?

Could this be linked to ideas of general relativity that gravity corresponds to a certain coordinate system change, so falling asleep could correspond to changing the system of coordinate so that we do not perceive gravity anymore ?

Many times when you are sleeping you will incorporate what is happening around you into your dream, I assume this is a mechanism to help keep you asleep. Like people dreaming of smoke and/or heat in a dream, only to wake up and find their house on fire and the room filling with smoke.

I often times will incorporate the sound of my phone ringing into my dream, which often leads to enough confusion, that it wakes me up, just in time to hear the end of the ring tone.

Some people, however, sleep like a log, they sleep so deeply it takes a lot of outside stimulation to wake them, I am a very light sleeper, and lately I have even been dreaming with my eyes open, so I can see my room with the dream going on, I'll have sleep paralysis most times this happens and the inability to move often wakes me up because I am so scared or frustrated. Sometimes my dream will even continue for a couple of seconds after I am awake, but that's a whole different post.

 

[sysprog]

Many times when you are sleeping you will incorporate what is happening around you into your dream, I assume this is a mechanism to help keep you asleep. Like people dreaming of smoke and/or heat in a dream, only to wake up and find their house on fire and the room filling with smoke.

I often times will incorporate the sound of my phone ringing into my dream, which often leads to enough confusion, that it wakes me up, just in time to hear the end of the ring tone.

Some people, however, sleep like a log, they sleep so deeply it takes a lot of outside stimulation to wake them, I am a very light sleeper, and lately I have even been dreaming with my eyes open, so I can see my room with the dream going on, I'll have sleep paralysis most times this happens and the inability to move often wakes me up because I am so scared or frustrated. Sometimes my dream will even continue for a couple of seconds after I am awake, but that's a whole different post.

@Evo please be careful about where and in what condition you park your primary firearm when you lie down to sleep $-$ I recommend that, as pretty much all sensible firearm owners are won't to do, you keep the possibility of unintentional discharge to a reasonable minimum $-$ keep it such that you have to reach up or down as well as over to get it in your hand, and make sure that it needs a >2kg trigger pull to fire the first round.

 

[Evo]

@Evo please be careful about where and in what condition you park your primary firearm when you lie down to sleep $-$ I recommend that, as pretty much all sensible firearm owners are won't to do, you keep the possibility of unintentional discharge to a reasonable minimum $-$ keep it such that you have to reach up or down as well as over to get it in your hand, and make sure that it needs a >2kg trigger pull to fire the first round.

I don't own a gun, but due to a break in last month, I'm reconsidering. Luckily they only got into the back room and couldn't get into the rest of the house due to deadlocks. It was just a teenager on drugs and alcohol and when I opened the inner door wondering what she needed, she tried to bolt indoors yelling "I won't kill you, I won't kill you". She was larger than me, but because she was so stoned (my dog alerted me to crashing noises in the outer room) she was unstable and I was able to shove her backwards out of the door way and quickly slam the door shut and bolt it, she had no clue as to where she was. I called 911 and showed her through the door window that I was calling the police. She just stood there. The police took her away, hopefully to her home, I didn't press charges. I now make sure I keep all doors locked at all times, sad. This is not a neighborhood where people lock their doors.

 

[sysprog]

Wow, @Evo, I'm glad that you emerged safely from that dangerous situation.

I imagine that the druggie kid yelling "I won't kill you" had contemporaneously recently been pondering 'what will I do if . . .'. I'm glad that she apparently was good enough to not be willing to allow herself to become a murderer. I hope that she will take her arrest and your mercy as a wake-up call, and move toward better options in the future.

I think that a good stout valiant and loyal dog can be great for defending you.

Even so, I have to recommend (anyone reading this, this is just what I think $-$ by my being allowed to say it here, it's in no way endorsed by the Physics Forums) that you should have a gun $-$ train yourself in safe and responsible keeping, bearing, and using of it, appropriately, before and after, acquisition of it.

The readily associable reasonable mentalities will take some getting used to $-$ 'should I arm myself', 'should I ready myself to fire and then issue orders', 'should I fire', 'how do I best neutralize the threat', 'do I point at center mass', 'is this one of the rare 'aim for the brainstem' situations' $-$

You will have to run all of the grim scenarios through your mind, but that can be done any where or any when, or just when you're on the way to and from training at the range $-$ when you train, I recommend that you take the hearing protectors off for a few rounds now and then, so that you can inure yourself against over-reacting to the loudness.

If you have doubts regarding what gun to get, I fully sympathize $-$ generally: revolvers are especially reliable; and semi-autos hold more rounds $-$ I think that the S&W Airweight .38 might be a good option for you.

 

[BillTre]

I think that a good stout valiant and loyal dog can be great for defending you.

I agree with this sentiment.
Since I've had a family, I have favored what I call medium-large dogs (probably 60-80 lbs.).
Smaller dogs are not very scary if you can just kick them out of the way.
None our dogs have been anything like an attack kind of guard dog, they were all quite sensitive to sounds that people were not aware of (about 50% of the time, when they are awake).

A trainer told us that our current dog (the wimpy Remy) would be sure to let us know someone was there, but than would just look and bark at them rather than do anything else.
Our previous dog (the renowned Snooter) however would look really nasty when she bared her teeth. She would look like she was going to tear someone's arm off, if she was well motivated.
She would charge people but not really bite them.

Just drawing attention is good, being scary is better in these situations.
Producing a controlled attack would be the most useful, but would require training (both human and dog).

WRT weapons, personally, I am quite happy with the many tools I have around (like axes, tomahawk like chopping things, hammers, machetes, screwdrivers, plus baseball bats).
The main problem, if something happens suddenly, would be how long it takes to get your weapon.

 

[Evo]

Hi @ sysprog, my 1st husband had handguns and I am well trained at using them, many hours at the firing range. He was shocked that from the first, my aim was near perfect, every time.

 

[sysprog]

Hi @ sysprog, my 1st husband had handguns and I am well trained at using them, many hours at the firing range. He was shocked that from the first, my aim was near perfect, every time.

Let's of course please hope and trust that you will never have to use a firearm in defense or protection of yourself or of another whom you have a lawful right or duty to protect or defend. That being said, maybe you're among those who should, if you have to shoot, target the brainstem, instead of the center mass. Please stay safe.

 

[DaveC426913]

Hi @ sysprog, my 1st husband had handguns and I am well trained at using them, many hours at the firing range. He was shocked that from the first, my aim was near perfect, every time.

: thinks of all the times he's pissed Evo off - immediately erupts into sweats and shakes :

 

[sysprog]

I agree with this sentiment.
Since I've had a family, I have favored what I call medium-large dogs (probably 60-80 lbs.).
Smaller dogs are not very scary if you can just kick them out of the way.
None our dogs have been anything like an attack kind of guard dog, they were all quite sensitive to sounds that people were not aware of (about 50% of the time, when they are awake).

A trainer told us that our current dog (the wimpy Remy) would be sure to let us know someone was there, but than would just look and bark at them rather than do anything else.
Our previous dog (the renowned Snooter) however would look really nasty when she bared her teeth. She would look like she was going to tear someone's arm off, if she was well motivated.
She would charge people but not really bite them.

Just drawing attention is good, being scary is better in these situations.
Producing a controlled attack would be the most useful, but would require training (both human and dog).

WRT weapons, personally, I am quite happy with the many tools I have around (like axes, tomahawk like chopping things, hammers, machetes, screwdrivers, plus baseball bats).
The main problem, if something happens suddenly, would be how long it takes to get your weapon.

One of my friends once got into a scrap outside a bar one night. His dog, a black Labrador named Murphy, did not try to bite my friend's opponent. He stood on his hind legs and began boxing with his forepaws, like my friend.

 

[Stephen Tashi]

Here's a link to an article on sleep paralysis,

A phenomena I've experienced first hand.

 

[sysprog]

@Stephen Tashi yowtch (sympathy, Sir)

 

[saggio]

Since I suppose we all sleep sometimes, how can it be that during it we don't feel gravity for example (no noise no light) ?

Could it be that all those phenomena are state of mind dependent, kind of construct of the brain ?

Could this be linked to ideas of general relativity that gravity corresponds to a certain coordinate system change, so falling asleep could correspond to changing the system of coordinate so that we do not perceive gravity anymore ?

The Rainbow and the Worm by Mae-Wan Ho ... worth the time to read provided you can find it at your location library. What your implying is a subject I've been thinking about and reading for many years.

 

[saggio]

Since I suppose we all sleep sometimes, how can it be that during it we don't feel gravity for example (no noise no light) ?

Could it be that all those phenomena are state of mind dependent, kind of construct of the brain ?

Could this be linked to ideas of general relativity that gravity corresponds to a certain coordinate system change, so falling asleep could correspond to changing the system of coordinate so that we do not perceive gravity anymore ?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242341915_Quantum_coherence_and_conscious_experience/link/0c9605208b74ae18c5000000/download

 

[Pythagorean]

This thread was not what I expected from the title.