How does polyphonic singing affect our perception of beat frequency?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the phenomenon of polyphonic singing and its impact on the perception of beat frequency. Participants explore the conditions under which beat frequencies might be perceived, the nature of overtones, and the complexities involved in analyzing sound spectra related to this type of singing.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express skepticism about the existence of beat frequencies in polyphonic singing, suggesting that the sound may be too complex or "mushy" to identify distinct beats.
  • One participant questions which specific beat frequency might be expected, noting the octave difference between the fundamental and the overtones, and suggesting that any potential beats would be difficult to recognize.
  • Another participant mentions that frequency differences in polyphonic singing are multiples of the fundamental frequency, making them indistinguishable.
  • There is a discussion about the non-harmonic nature of overtones produced by human vocal tracts, which may contribute to the unique sound of polyphonic singing.
  • Some participants reference the use of spectrum analyzers to identify frequencies and potential beats, but express doubt about their effectiveness in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the perception of beat frequencies in polyphonic singing, with multiple competing views and uncertainties expressed throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in recognizing beat frequencies due to the complex nature of sound produced in polyphonic singing and the potential non-linearities in human hearing.

houlahound
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Might be more banter than discussion but this I thought interesting. Going to capture the spectra and post it.

Didn't think was legit, but legit.

Posted as a physics student motivator for teachers introducing overtones, harmonics etc.

Why we hear no beat frequency??

 
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houlahound said:
Didn't think was legit, but legit.
Wikipedia has some nice samples of different styles of overtone signing.
houlahound said:
Why we hear no beat frequency??
Why would we hear a beat frequency? In what conditions are beats produced?
 
houlahound said:
Why we hear no beat frequency??
Which "beat frequency" would you expect? You have a fundamental and you have one of the overtones she accentuates. There is, as far as I can hear, at least an octave between the two main frequencies she is singing. Any difference or sum that you might hear, due to some non linearity somewhere (in your ears?) would be lost in the mush. There could be beats between the harmonics of the fundamental and the frequencies of the overtones but how would expect to recognise them? Overall, the sound is pretty mushy and confusing.
Even a spectrum analyser would probably be hard pressed to dig out any identifiable products. I guess you could identify the two frequencies and then look at frequencies corresponding to possible beats. It's probably true to say that your ear is 'experiencing' something in the timbre of the notes. I always think that my ears are particularly non-linear and I generate all sorts of shash with multiple sources. Hearing aids don't help that particularly. Noisy Pub conversations as a real challenge.
 
Top left in the video was a click opportunity to get a much more interesting visual explanation with all the spectra. Dynamic (check around 2:00) ! Miraculous voice control !

No beats? Frequency differences are multiples of the fundamental frequency so they are indistinguishable.
 
BvU said:
No beats? Frequency differences are multiples of the fundamental frequency so they are indistinguishable.
It's not Harmonic Singing. Overtones of any complicated resonator are not harmonically related. (Not even for a real string). There will be some dramatic differences for a human vocal tract and that's why it sounds so unearthly.
 
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BvU said:
Top left in the video was a click opportunity to get a much more interesting visual explanation with all the spectra.
Thanks link, better spectra than what I could get.

Anyone know what software, I'm wanting it.

Neat frequency filter option.
 

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