How does the classical world emerge from the quantum world?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the emergence of the classical world from quantum mechanics, specifically addressing the work of Caslav Brukner and Johannes Kofler. They propose that classical laws arise from quantum laws under the condition of coarse-grained measurements. Key points include the distinction between macrorealism and noninvasive measurability, and the assertion that decoherence plays a crucial role in this transition. The conversation critiques existing interpretations and emphasizes the necessity of understanding the limitations of classical models in light of quantum phenomena.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of quantum mechanics principles, particularly decoherence.
  • Familiarity with the concepts of coarse-grained measurements.
  • Knowledge of macrorealism and its implications in quantum theory.
  • Awareness of the works of Caslav Brukner and Johannes Kofler.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of decoherence in quantum mechanics.
  • Study the paper by Kofler and Brukner on coarse-grained Schrödinger cats.
  • Explore the Leggett and Garg inequalities and their relevance to quantum mechanics.
  • Investigate the relationship between quantum field theory and classical hydromechanics.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for physicists, quantum mechanics researchers, and anyone interested in the philosophical implications of quantum theory on classical physics.

bremsstrahlung
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Why do billiard balls does not pass through both the slits at once or tunnel through walls while electrons and photons do? Quantum phenomena are observed at room temperatures so how does decoherence theory account for such phenomena? I think only Caslav Brukner and Johannes Kofler have seriously addressed this question.

Classical world arising out of quantum physics under the restriction of coarse-grained measurements.

http://www2.mpq.mpg.de/~jkofler/Files/Publications/Kofler,%20Brukner%20%282007%29%20-%20A%20coarse-grained%20Schroedinger%20cat.pdf

Do classical laws arise from quantum laws?

Does this really solve the problem?
 
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bremsstrahlung said:
Why do billiard balls does not pass through both the slits at once or tunnel through walls while electrons and photons do?

Its because just about everything, electrons even, is entangled and decohered, usually for macro stuff, into the position basis.

The detail can't be given in a post - but the following gives the full monty:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/3540357734/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Thanks
Bill
 
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bremsstrahlung said:
Why do billiard balls does not pass through both the slits at once or tunnel through walls while electrons and photons do?
The idea of photon passing through both slits at once is only an interpretation of interference and I would even say that it is false as photons from independent lasers can show interference too.

So the first question is what sets "quantum world" and "classical world" apart. It seems that Kofler and Brukner are using Leggett and Garg version:
1. Macrorealism per se: A macroscopic object which has available to it two or more macroscopically distinct states is at any given time in a definite one of those states.
2. Noninvasive measurability: It is possible in principle to determine which of these states the system is in without any effect on the state itself or on the subsequent system dynamics.

While first is OK the second one is too antropocentric. And we could factor into the model invasive measurements. So I don't see that it limits applicability of classical models.

bremsstrahlung said:
Does this really solve the problem?
I don't think so. Before there was anyone who could do coarse-grained measurements there was no classical world?
 
bremsstrahlung said:
Caslav Brukner and Johannes Kofler have seriously addressed this question.

Classical world arising out of quantum physics under the restriction of coarse-grained measurements.

I looked at this paper. It is a step in the right direction. But they write on p.2, right column, end of first paragraph in the arXiv version: ''It seems thus unavoidable that certain features of classicality have to be assumed beforehand.'' Thus it is not a full solution.

But it gives an explicit example verifying that the coarse-graining inherent in all macroscopic views of quantum physics makes the world classical. This is best visible in derivations of hydromechanics (a classical theory of fluids) from quantum field theory, and is consistent with my thermal interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Note that the coarse-graining in Nature is not done by measurement (the setting chosen in the paper) but simply by the fact that nothing can be resolved by its environment to arbitrarily high precision.
 
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