How Does the Conservation of Energy Apply to the Existence of Space?

[vincentm]

Okay, this has always hit me as somewhat of a deep thought subject, although me being...well - me. I've never really been arsed to do any deep thinking. So I'll outline the basics and let you let you get on your football boots, and play it out.

A simply physics fact: Energy cannot be created, it can only be converted

So. In that case, does our perception of time merely indicate the decaying of our bodies on this earth, and have absoloutley no relevance to the time span that 'space' has been here? I mean, if energy can only be converted, how did 'space' come about? What really bites my tongue is - Has space ALWAYS been here, or did an other energy of some sort create this? I mean. If there really was something before space, what was it? Where was it? How big might it have been?

 

[Nereid]

Ah, but whence the 'simple physics fact'? Does it have some special validity, outside of the good (physics) theories which include it?

Perhaps all such 'facts' and 'laws' (e.g. 'conservation of energy') are, when you dig deep enough, merely an aspect of one or other theory?

Which leads one to questions such as "what meaning does 'space' have, outside of the good physics theories which incorporate it?" and "to what extent is it possible to establish 'facts', 'laws', etc that stand outside theories?" {Nereid think to self - is Les Sleeth still around? He'd love this!}

More prosaically, the origin of anything in the universe - the 'true' origin, not such wimpy things as when our solar system began - is, maybe, within the grasp of our outstretched arms (LQG, String Theory, etc) - how well do these 'leading edge' theories answer your questions?

 

[Dvarek]

Take it from another aspect. What if our space is merely the fluid in some sort of astronomical egg? I mean what if space is actually a shield or a boundary of some outer space or dimension. What if there is a di-uniververse?

 

[Bass Boy]

In my opinion, Space is the play, if you will, of a started definition of physical and non-physical reality. If you believe that every action has a equal and opposite reaction. Then the space and time we currently reside in is the expresion of creation or the conversion of energy into matter = creation. This is also where religion and science clash. Even though I believe that there is intelegent design I can't believe that this intelegent design Created the cosmos. So that being said. We are experiencing creation as we live through time. If all energy came from a single point which is believe to be a 7 cylce rotation of expansion and contraction.

But the biggest question is as you stated, in what " space" does space exist??

If space contracts, then in what space does this happen in. In what space does space expand? Or is it all irrelevant in acordance with creation. Being this is part of the adventure, a stimulus to find the answer. We'll never know we are on the right trail if we don't experience it our self.

Where does this sea of bubbles exist? In even bigger question. There has been an idea put forth that says our universe is but in a sea of universes. So where does this exist? If ever action or thought creats a nother avenue to be played out. Then where is this happening? Many questions to be thought of and so little time we live to actually work them out. It is mind bending for sure.

 

[e=mc^2]

A simply physics fact: Energy cannot be created, it can only be converted

...I mean, if energy can only be converted, how did 'space' come about? What really bites my tongue is - Has space ALWAYS been here, or did an other energy of some sort create this? I mean. If there really was something before space, what was it? Where was it? How big might it have been?

Getting back to your original question; I would like to also speculate and since all we have are theories, how about this one:

First of all, many will agree that our universe is expanding which is to suggest that it is moving away from a central point. Now as a side note, many will also agree that a black hole is speculated to be formed by matter collapsing into itself.

With those two concepts fresh in your mind, now imagine a universe that is expanding or moving away from a central point (for whatever reason, Big Bang, Divine Creation, what-ever). Now let's say that this continues until it runs its course and then at that point, reaches the end or as far as it can stretch or move outward and then begins to be pulled backwards or in the opposite direction.

Think of a cosmic yo-yo :-) The universe expands outwardly in all directions until it can no longer do so and then begins to move in the other direction, shrinking back onto itself (both taking millions or billions of years in each direction) until it once again becomes a singularity or infinite mass and density...

Then, after X amount of time, it can no longer collapse any further and explodes again (or for an infinite number of cycles) and starts to move outwardly in all directions once again.

So in my opinion, there is no beginning or end – it is a never ending cycle of expanding and contracting and those who have viewed stars that collapsed (because they can no longer produce the energy necessary to keep them from being crushed), have witnessed a similar phenomena but obviously to a much smaller degree and as such, only a snapshot of time.

 

[hypnagogue]

vincent, I appreciate your seeking answers to these big questions, but for these particular questions, philosophy is not the best avenue. There is something of a philosophical component here, but in the original post and especially in some of the replies, the theme seems clearly to be more oriented towards physics itself-- questions that physics should have something to say about and discussions that should be evaluated by physicists before philosophers. I suggest trying to clarify your question a bit and trying to ask it in one of the physics forums.