How does the ratio test fail and the root test succeed here?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the convergence of a specific series composed of two interleaved geometric series. Participants explore the application of the ratio test and the root test, questioning why the ratio test fails while the root test appears to succeed. The scope includes theoretical analysis and mathematical reasoning regarding convergence tests for infinite series.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the series consists of two separate geometric series and describes the behavior of the ratio test, indicating confusion over the limits of the subsequences.
  • Another participant questions how Spivak defines the root test, suggesting that using the convergence of both subseries may provide a clearer understanding of convergence.
  • A participant asserts that the root test is stronger than the ratio test, referencing an inequality that relates the two tests.
  • Some participants discuss Spivak's definition of the root test, mentioning the "delicate root test" and its implications for convergence based on the limit superior.
  • There is a consensus among some participants that the ratio test is inconclusive due to the alternating behavior of the ratios for even and odd indices.
  • One participant concludes that the limit of the ratio does not exist, while another agrees that the limit does not equal a finite number or infinity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express uncertainty regarding the application of the ratio test, with some agreeing that it is inconclusive. There is no consensus on the interpretation of Spivak's claims about the failure of the ratio test, and multiple viewpoints on the effectiveness of the root test are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on definitions and the behavior of subsequences, noting that the limits for even and odd indexed terms diverge. The discussion remains focused on the theoretical implications of the tests without resolving the underlying mathematical complexities.

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TL;DR
I'm studying Spivak's Calculus, chapter 23, problem 7. There he introduces the root test and he gives an example of a series for which the ratio test fails but the root test works. I struggle with verifying this.
The series that is given is $$\frac12+\frac13+\left(\frac12\right)^2+\left(\frac13\right)^2+\left(\frac12\right)^3+\left(\frac13\right)^3+\ldots.$$ Now, it's easy to see these are two separate geometric series, however, Spivak claims the ratio test fails because the ratio of successive terms does not approach a limit. I have figured out that $$a_{2n-1}=\left(\frac12\right)^{n},\quad a_{2n}=\left(\frac13\right)^{n},\quad n=1,2,\ldots.$$ For the ratio test, we should have that the fraction ##\left|\frac{a_{n}}{a_{n-1}} \right| ## approaches some finite limit or diverges to infinity. In this case, if ##n## is even we have that the fraction is ##\left(\frac23\right)^n\to 0## as ##n\to\infty##. If ##n## is odd, we have ##\left(\frac32\right)^n\frac13\to\infty## as ##n\to\infty##. This behavior confuses me. What can we conclude from this?

The root test given in the exercise is that if ##a_n\geq0## and ##\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}\sqrt[n]{a_n}=r##, then ##\sum_{n=1}^\infty a_n## converges if ##r<1## and diverges if ##r>1##. Apparently this test should work, but I do not see how when the even indexed subsequence and the odd indexed subsequence seem to converge to different limits, namely ##\frac13## and ##\frac12##.
 
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How does Spivak define the root test? The following definition uses the ##\lim \sup##.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_test

That said, it seems more logical to me to use the convergence of both subseries. It can't be hard to prove that if both ##\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} a_n## and ##\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} b_n## converge, then ##a_1 + b_1 + a_2 + b_2 + a_3 + b_3 \dots## must also converge.

PS and in this case, it's not hard actually to compute the limit of the series!
 
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The root test is stronger than the ratio test, at least if ##\limsup##-version is used. It is based on this inequality: ##\liminf(a_{n+1}/a_n) \le \liminf a_n^{1/n} \le \limsup a_n^{1/n} \le \limsup(a_{n+1}/a_n)##, if every ## a_n## is a positive real number.
 
PeroK said:
How does Spivak define the root test?
Spivak defines the root test first as I defined it above, without the ##\limsup##. Then, however, he adds that we can replace the limit with ##\limsup## and calls it the "delicate root test". He probably means that if we use the root test with ##\limsup## on the series above, then we get that ##\limsup\limits_{n\to\infty}|a_n|^{1/n}=\frac12##, which is less than ##1##, so we have convergence.

PeroK said:
That said, it seems more logical to me to use the convergence of both subseries. It can't be hard to prove that if both ##\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} a_n## and ##\sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} b_n## converge, then ##a_1 + b_1 + a_2 + b_2 + a_3 + b_3 \dots## must also converge.
I agree it would be easier to use the convergence of both subseries, but I'm trying to understand what Spivak means by the ratio test failing. We have that ##\left|\frac{a_{n}}{a_{n-1}} \right|## converges to ##0## if ##n## is even and ##\infty## if ##n## is odd, as ##n\to\infty##. Can we conclude from this that ##\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}\left|\frac{a_{n}}{a_{n-1}} \right|## does not equal a finite number or infinity?
 
psie said:
Spivak defines the root test first as I defined it above, without the ##\limsup##. Then, however, he adds that we can replace the limit with ##\limsup## and calls it the "delicate root test". He probably means that if we use the root test with ##\limsup## on the series above, then we get that ##\limsup\limits_{n\to\infty}|a_n|^{1/n}=\frac12##, which is less than ##1##, so we have convergence.I agree it would be easier to use the convergence of both subseries, but I'm trying to understand what Spivak means by the ratio test failing. We have that ##\left|\frac{a_{n}}{a_{n-1}} \right|## converges to ##0## if ##n## is even and ##\infty## if ##n## is odd, as ##n\to\infty##. Can we conclude from this that ##\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}\left|\frac{a_{n}}{a_{n-1}} \right|## does not equal a finite number or infinity?
The ratio test is inconclusive, as every other term in the sequence of ratios is ##\frac 1 2(\frac 3 2)^n##.
 
psie said:
I agree it would be easier to use the convergence of both subseries, but I'm trying to understand what Spivak means by the ratio test failing. We have that ##\left|\frac{a_{n}}{a_{n-1}} \right|## converges to ##0## if ##n## is even and ##\infty## if ##n## is odd, as ##n\to\infty##. Can we conclude from this that ##\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}\left|\frac{a_{n}}{a_{n-1}} \right|## does not equal a finite number or infinity?

The correct conclusion is that this limit does not exist.
 
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I analyze whole question and I think here limit will not exist.
 

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