How is it possible the universe is infinite?

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There are many questions that hava been posed regarding the origins of existence. My question is which question holds the key to answering the question the questions attempt to answer... how did the universe begin? Black holes.. what are they? Why are there so many particles within atoms and how do they hold their information they same way a solar system or galaxy does?.. How is it possible the universe is infinite?
 

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  • #2


Lol. Scientists and philosophers have been trying to answer these questions since the begginging of our existence. You're probably not going to find an answer on physicsforums.com. But if you really do want some of these questions answered, read "The Grand Design" by Stephen Hawking. He goes into the details about it.
 
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I have read most of the books out there regarding physics. I dont understand how it supposed to make sense. No where in any book, lecture, interview from anyone I've researched explains why atomic structures are similar to solar structures and solar structures are similar to galaxy structures. yet all of them are held together by three different forces. Atoms.. strong force... solar systems.. stars.. galaxies.. black holes.. That is what I want to know.
 
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No where in any book, lecture, interview from anyone I've researched explains why atomic structures are similar to solar structures and solar structures are similar to galaxy structures.
That's probably because they are not very similar.
 
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Drakkith
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I have read most of the books out there regarding physics. I dont understand how it supposed to make sense. No where in any book, lecture, interview from anyone I've researched explains why atomic structures are similar to solar structures and solar structures are similar to galaxy structures. yet all of them are held together by three different forces. Atoms.. strong force... solar systems.. stars.. galaxies.. black holes.. That is what I want to know.
I'm not seeing how those are the same. They are slightly similar in some vague sense, but not the same. And galaxies are NOT held together by black holes. Not by themselves at least. Both solar systems and galaxies are held together by the gravitational interaction between matter.
 
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So the fact that each structure has a center with objects orbiting... atomic particles... planets... stars.. doesn't make them similar? To me that says that there is a commom force that governs everything from particles to galaxies to the universe and it's not gravity.
 
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That has nothing to do with the other questions and is relatively easily answered anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole
Just because wikipedia says what it thinks a black hole is doesn't mean that thats what a black hole is... most college students who use wikipedia as a reference on a research paper get their paper thrown out for a lack of credable references. Some things on wikipedia might be posted by actually smart people but just as much is by people who dont know what they are talking about. If the answer to the question "what is a black hole" is so easy why is there no current model of what a black hole really is that everyone can agree with?
 
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Drakkith
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So the fact that each structure has a center with objects orbiting... atomic particles... planets... stars.. doesn't make them similar? To me that says that there is a commom force that governs everything from particles to galaxies to the universe and it's not gravity.
Sorry, you are incorrect. The gravity exerted by a nucleus and electron are nowhere near strong enough to hold the electron in an atom. That is caused by the electromagnetic force. Stars and galaxies are both held together by gravity. The difference between a star system and a galaxy is that a star system has the vast majority of its mass (and gravity) in the star or stars that make it up. In systems with single stars this results in everything orbiting around this one star in a elliptical manner. In systems with two or more stars the resulting orbits are more unpredictable, but still due to gravity.

A galaxy is NOT held together primarily through the black hole in the center. It is due to the gravity from ALL of the matter in the galaxy added together. (And possibly dark matter)

Just because wikipedia says what it thinks a black hole is doesn't mean that thats what a black hole is... most college students who use wikipedia as a reference on a research paper get their paper thrown out for a lack of credable references. Some things on wikipedia might be posted by actually smart people but just as much is by people who dont know what they are talking about. If the answer to the question "what is a black hole" is so easy why is there no current model of what a black hole really is that everyone can agree with?

What are you talking about? EVERYONE agrees that a black hole is a point in space with immense gravity with a point around it beyond which nothing, not even light, can escape. The only thing in question is the details about what happens inside the event horizon and such.
 
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Im just wondering why the particles rotate around the nucleus the same way planets do around the sun and larger formations rotate around the black hole if they are all held together differently.
 
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Im just wondering why the particles rotate around the nucleus the same way planets do around the sun and larger formations rotate around the black hole if they are all held together differently.
That's the thing you are missing here. Particles do NOT orbit a nucleus like the planets do the sun. The classic view of little hard balls of electrons orbiting circles around a nucleus is a near totally incorrect view of what is happening. You would need to look into Quantum Physics to understand what is going on though.

The sun and galaxy, like I said before, are both held together by gravity. The black hole in the center of the galaxy is merely a consequence of more matter being concentrated in the center than on the outside. (Which is pretty much exactly the reason stars form and such.) The key I'm trying to get you to understand is that a black hole does not have enough gravity to hold ALL of the galaxy together just by itself. Hell, not even the visible matter + the black hole has enough, which is why we came up with the theory of Dark Matter to explain the discrepencies.
 
  • #12
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That's the thing you are missing here. Particles do NOT orbit a nucleus like the planets do the sun. The classic view of little hard balls of electrons orbiting circles around a nucleus is a near totally incorrect view of what is happening. You would need to look into Quantum Physics to understand what is going on though.

The sun and galaxy, like I said before, are both held together by gravity. The black hole in the center of the galaxy is merely a consequence of more matter being concentrated in the center than on the outside. (Which is pretty much exactly the reason stars form and such.) The key I'm trying to get you to understand is that a black hole does not have enough gravity to hold ALL of the galaxy together just by itself. Hell, not even the visible matter + the black hole has enough, which is why we came up with the theory of Dark Matter to explain the discrepencies.
But they do in some nature. there is no way to pin point a particle around the nucleus but it's safe to assume that they do move around the center in the same respect to some degree because the particles aren't scattering. Movement around a center is common in all three. I dont think it's coincidence. I know i might be thinking like an idiot but some similar force has to be affecting all three.
 
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But they do in some nature. there is no way to pin point a particle around the nucleus but it's safe to assume that they do move around the center in the same respect to some degree because the particles aren't scattering. Movement around a center is common in all three. I dont think it's coincidence. I know i might be thinking like an idiot but some similar force has to be affecting all three.
You are taking a VERY generalized view of all this and saying that it MUST be the same thing that is causing it. We KNOW that the electromagnetic force holds the atom together. We know that electrons are negatively charged and protons are positively charged AND that opposite charges attract. We have measured this just like we have measured gravity. The electromagnetic force is many orders of magnitude more powerful than gravity and is the only thing that could hold an atom together how it is.
 
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Just because wikipedia says what it thinks a black hole is doesn't mean that thats what a black hole is...

If the answer to the question "what is a black hole" is so easy why is there no current model of what a black hole really is that everyone can agree with?
A scientifically accepted model exists and wiki has a description of it. If you don't like wikipedia, then google it yourself. And if you want help, you need to drop the combative attitude.
 

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