How many generations old is our system?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the origins of the elements in our solar system, exploring the number of generations of star formation and collapse required to create these elements. It also examines the potential sources of material for the solar system, including the contributions from other stars and the likelihood of future star formation from the solar system's existing planets.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that elements heavier than hydrogen and helium require multiple generations of stars to form, with estimates suggesting our sun is a third generation star based on its metallicity.
  • Others argue that the material for our solar system likely came from several interacting dust clouds rather than a single progenitor star, which could have varied ages.
  • A participant notes that the stars responsible for creating heavy elements are typically much more massive than our sun and have shorter lifespans, leading to many generations of such stars since the universe began.
  • There is a suggestion that the solar system may include remnants from dozens of generations of stars, as massive stars in the early universe could have lived only a few million years before exploding and dispersing their material.
  • Regarding the potential for Jupiter or Saturn to collect enough mass from the sun's ejected material to form a new star, some participants express skepticism about this likelihood, citing the directional nature of the ejected material.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the origins of the solar system's material, with no consensus on whether it primarily originated from a single system or multiple sources. The likelihood of Jupiter or Saturn becoming a star from the sun's ejected mass is also debated, with differing opinions on its feasibility.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of current knowledge regarding extinct stars that contributed material to the solar system's formation and the complexities involved in tracing the origins of stellar material.

Chrisg1960
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I understand that elements heavier than hydrogen and helium require the life span of a solar system to be created through fusion. With a rough estimate of the universe's age of 13.8 B years and our system's rough age of 4.5 B years, how many generations of star formation and collapse do we believe were required to create the elements in our system? Also related, what percentage of this matter may have originated from a single system? Or in other words, is our system a homogeneous conglomeration of the ejecta from numerous systems or is it more likely that the bulk of the matter in our system came from a single ancestor system? It would seem to be too time consuming for several systems to cast their matter to the skies and have enough matter coalesce into a system to be several generations old. I know this is getting long and multi-pronged here but lastly, when our sun becomes a red giant and casts off roughly 2/3rds of it's mass, what is the likelihood that Jupiter or Saturn may collect enough mass to approach the minimum required to form a new star?
 
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We don't have any information about long extinct stars which contributed material to the formation of our solar system.
Obviously more of the material will have come from systems located in the same general region of the galaxy as our Sun.
I think it's more likely that several interacting dust clouds led to the formation of our solar system rather than the coalescing of debris emitted by a single progenitor.
If it is the case that several dust clouds contributed, they could be of quite different ages.

As to whether Jupiter could accrete enough mass from a dying Sun to become a star itself, I'd say that's unlikely since only a small part of the material ejected by the Sun will be heading in a direction that leads it eventually to being captured by Jupiter
 
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Our sun is a third generation star, we know it based on how much metal there is in it.
Not all generations were equal, the first generation stars did not last ten billion years like our sun will, most of the early stars were monsters, they lived fasted and died young. In the early universe there was a massive amount of interstellar hydrogen so when a star got big, it sucked everything near it in, making them humungous. Humungous stars can explode in as little as a few million years.

Metal in this case isn't the same as metal in chemistry, it means anything heavier than helium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallicity
 
The stars which generate heavy elements and spread them through space by exploding as supernovae are much more massive than our sun, typically 10-100 times as massive. The lifetime of a star is roughly proportional to 1/Mass^3. So these massive stars only live a few million to a few 10's of millions of years. So there have been many 'generations' of these massive stars since the universe began. For this reason, the material from which our sun was born likely contained ejecta from many prior supernovae.
 
Stars in the very early universe could have been very more massive than the sun due to the lack of metallicity. They may have only lived for a handful of millions of year before spewing their metallized gut into the cosmos. IOW, what phyzguy said. The solar system probably includes remains of dozens of generations of star.
 
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