How many mSv of radiation would a bolt of ionized plasma deliver?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the potential radiation effects of ionized plasma weapons, specifically in the context of fictional scenarios such as those depicted in Star Wars. Participants explore the implications of ionized radiation on living beings, the mechanics of energy transfer, and the fictional portrayal of such weapons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that ion weapons could cause serious harm to living beings if hit by a bolt, citing potential cancer risks from ionized radiation.
  • Another participant argues that any weapon capable of damaging technology would likely be lethal to organic material, challenging the idea that ion weapons could selectively avoid harming living beings.
  • A third participant corrects a previous claim about radiation doses, suggesting that the figures mentioned should be in milliSieverts rather than microsieverts, and discusses the energy required to cause significant physical damage.
  • One participant proposes that the fictional technology could be based on tesla coils, which pose limited health risks but can still damage electronics.
  • Another participant clarifies that while all plasma is ionized, not all plasma emits ionizing radiation, using lightning as an example of a natural phenomenon that can produce significant radiation doses.
  • Discussion includes the distinction between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation, with one participant emphasizing that non-ionizing radiation can still pose risks, particularly in specific applications like area denial weapons.
  • Another participant humorously notes that non-ionizing radiation is not harmless, referencing everyday experiences like using a microwave.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the effects of ionized plasma weapons, with no consensus reached on the potential harm to living beings or the accuracy of the fictional portrayal of such weapons. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature and implications of radiation from these weapons.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the discussion, including the dependence on fictional scenarios and the lack of concrete data on radiation doses from ionized plasma. There are unresolved assumptions about the nature of the radiation emitted and its effects on living tissue.

Razorback Gorilla
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I'm a huge Star Wars fan and it just occurred to me, that the ion weapons used to disable droids, ships and other electronics would cause serious harm as well, to living beings, if they got accidentally hit by a bolt. Ionized radiation can give a person cancer, and the amount of microsieverts to do that is roughly between 1000-4000, with 4000 being fatal in a manner of days.

I'm trying to figure out how many microsieverts are packed into one ion bolt, but its hard because I don't have any numbers. The bolt is fairly small, but I don't know how many particles packed together is in equivalency to microsieverts.

The Star Wars Wikipedia is no help either as it just says it doesn't harm organic beings. While this may be true initially, could getting hit with one stray bolt give you cancer down the line?
 
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Realistically, any 'bolt' of sufficient strength to substantially damage a starship, fighter, or walker will almost certainly kill someone if they were hit by it. There's just no way that I am aware of for a projected energy type weapon to ignore organic material (and all that water its keeping in) while damaging technology. This is true of both ionizing and non-ionizing radiation, along with particle radiation.

But why let a little thing like that get in the way of a good story? If they say ion weapons don't harm organic beings, then just run with it.
 
Razorback Gorilla said:
Ionized radiation can give a person cancer, and the amount of microsieverts to do that is roughly between 1000-4000, with 4000 being fatal in a manner of days.
I think that should be milliSieverts in your sentence. 1000 microSiverts is 1 milliSivert, which is roughly the average annual effective dose from background radiation, and quite survivable in the long term.

In a Star Wars scenario, you're talking about accelerating charged particles to a sufficient energy that they would do dramatic physical damage on impact with a solid surface.

In radiation therapy, we will sometimes deliver ablative doses in a single fraction. That's enough radiation to kill all the cancer cells at once. Such doses are typically on the order of say 20-30 Gy. But by definition, 1 Gy = 1 J/kg. Simply to raise the temperature of a 250 ml cup of coffee by 1 degree, you need about 1000 J. So if we were to bump up the radiation dose by a couple orders of magnitude, deliver say 3000 Gy and completely sterilize any living cells, that's only enough energy to raise that cup of coffee's temperature by a few degrees. The porcelain holding the cup together would be just fine.

So if you're talking enough energy to instantaneously blow a hole in a droid, the air scatter alone is likely to be quite deadly.
 
Razorback Gorilla said:
it just occurred to me, that the ion weapons used to disable droids, ships and other electronics would cause serious harm as well, to living beings, if they got accidentally hit by a bolt.
Not necessarily. Make its technobabble based on tesla coils - those pose a limited health risk if properly done, but they will still fry most electronics anyway.

But make no mistake - it's all about cooking up quality technobabble.
 
Just to clarify, all plasma are ionized but not all plasma emit ionizing radiation.

Using a terrestrial example, lightning can produce ionizing radiation comparable to the dose you might receive from ~100's of xrays, while a neon sign emits no ionizing radiation.

Lightning might be a good analog, so it's probably not great for you, but unlikely to give you a fatal dose? Minus the physical effects of being hit by a bolt of lightning itself.
 
Also I just wanted to add, non-ionizing radiation != harmless. The public limit for the averaged power density of say mmwave is like ##10 \frac{W}{m^2}## for 30m. Some area denial weapons the US use are based on mmwave and are probably not pleasant to be around. Below mmwave the allowable limits go higher until you basically don't have far field radiation anymore.

When we do research involving non-ionizing radiation it's generally good practice (and required) to ensure that the power density is safe for both the public and the people working on the system (whom have a higher limit).

I don't think there's really anyway to skin this cat where it's completely "harmless" without:

But make no mistake - it's all about cooking up quality technobabble.
 
QuarkyMeson said:
Also I just wanted to add, non-ionizing radiation != harmless.
Indeed. If this were the case then I wouldn't be able to reheat my chicken in the microwave.