How many would vote for equality, (all men are equal) in status and

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of equality in status and buying power, exploring whether all individuals should be treated equally in terms of compensation and support in the workplace. Participants engage in a debate about the implications of equality, the definitions of "good" workers, and the nature of helping others.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that not all individuals are equal in terms of work ethic and results, questioning whether equal pay is justified for unequal contributions.
  • Others suggest that the definitions of "good" and "help" are crucial to understanding workplace dynamics and support.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of teaching skills rather than doing tasks for others, illustrating a personal experience with mentoring.
  • There are interpretations of "buying power," with some arguing against equal pay due to potential negative impacts on motivation and work ethic.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that equality should be based on the quality and effort of work, advocating for equal status and buying power for those who meet certain standards.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the feasibility of communism and its implications for equality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the definitions and implications of equality, with multiple competing views on how it should be applied in the context of work and compensation. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights varying interpretations of equality, the role of individual effort, and the complexities of workplace support, indicating that definitions and assumptions are not universally agreed upon.

wolram
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How many would vote for equality, (all men are equal) in status and buying power?
 
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No. This is obviouly not true. All men (and women) are not equal. Should all workers be paid the same though some work harder and produce more and better results? Why should the good worker be penalised?
 


qspeechc said:
No. This is obviouly not true. All men (and women) are not equal. Should all workers be paid the same though some work harder and produce more and better results? Why should the good worker be penalised?


So then, should the good worker help the less so?
 


wolram said:
So then, should the good worker help the less so?
What do you mean by help? I will answers a co-worker's questions, but I won't do their work for them.
 


wolram said:
So then, should the good worker help the less so?

That depends on your definitions of both `good' and `help'.

If by `good' you mean `skilled', and by `help' you mean `teach', then I would say yes.

If by `good' you mean `motivated' or `hard working', and by `help' you mean `do it for them', then I would say no.
 


What about the other pemutations NeoDevin?
 


Evo said:
What do you mean by help? I will answers a co-worker's questions, but I won't do their work for them.

Is this then the fine line between help and help to support?
 


qspeechc said:
What about the other pemutations NeoDevin?

Yes, we could permute them otherwise, or combine them, or have the skilled helping the lazy, or the motivated helping the unskilled, etc. ad nauseum, I was just trying to illustrate that the question was ill posed, and my answer would depend upon clarification.
 


wolram said:
Is this then the fine line between help and help to support?
I don't see this a fine line. Answering the question - "How do I do X"? Or doing X for them. I don't do X.

I have often had to mentor new employees. I'd be happy to answer their question the first time, not quite as happy the second time. The third time they asked the same question, I told them to figure it out themselves.

One new hire was driving my boss nuts with constant questions. I told her to send him to me. He'd never bookmark pages he needed, he wouldn't keep notes on instructions, every time he had to do something he'd come over and ask instead of trying to figure it out. I took him aside and said "Bill, have you heard "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". I'm going to teach you to fish. He got the message, and took a bunch of notes that he pinned up all over his office. He didn't last too long.

I'm not a nice person. :devil:
 
  • #10


NeoDevin said:
Yes, we could permute them otherwise, or combine them, or have the skilled helping the lazy, or the motivated helping the unskilled, etc. ad nauseum, I was just trying to illustrate that the question was ill posed, and my answer would depend upon clarification.


The question was posed in vague way on purpose to find out what people mean by equality and if they would wish it or not.
 
  • #11


wolram said:
buying power

I can see two ways to interpret that statement.

1) Buying power as in the authority to buy anything. If any rich person had the ability to get their hands on nukes or other things that regular people are not supposed to be able to buy, then I would not support that.

2) That everyone has a near equal pay. I do not support this as it has been emphasized many times that if this were to happen, then the inclination to actually make something of yourself in life is lowered, and the drop in work ethic and rise in school dropouts would be huge. If everyone knows that they will make the same as the next guy, then they ask themselves why they go to school, and simply drop out. This would be devastating on almost all angles.
 
  • #12


Good work, jeans, You figured out quickly why communism could not work.

Evo, why would you be not a nice person if you gave a person three chances?
 
  • #13


Communism is a horrible thought.
 
  • #14


I support equality to achieve status and buying power, but then it is up to the individual to put the effort into actually achieve it. In other words, nobody gets a special privilege to get something without working for it, but if you put in the work AND it's quality work, anyone doing that should get equal status and buying power for the amount and quality of work done.
 
  • #15


Evo said:
I took him aside and said "Bill, have you heard "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime".

I heard it as "Build a man a fire and he's warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life." :devil:
 
  • #16


BREAKING NEWS: The world isn't black and white! People are having trouble with moral ambiguity!
 

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