How massive/hot does a star have to be for fusion to occur

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the conditions necessary for nuclear fusion to occur in stars, particularly focusing on the mass and temperature thresholds required for fusion processes like the proton-proton chain. Participants explore the role of quantum tunneling in facilitating these reactions and the implications of various mass thresholds.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that a critical mass of approximately 80 times Jupiter's mass is needed for a star to ignite nuclear fusion, with core temperatures needing to reach around 10 to 15 million K.
  • It is noted that a mass of hydrogen must be about 0.13 solar masses to initiate fusion through the proton-proton chain, assuming the star forms from a hydrogen-rich cloud.
  • Questions are raised about whether fusion can occur at 0.13 solar masses without quantum tunneling, with some arguing that tunneling is essential for protons to come close enough to fuse.
  • Others propose that while nuclear reactions can occur without tunneling, tunneling increases the reaction rate by allowing nuclei that lack sufficient energy to overcome the Coulomb barrier to still participate in fusion.
  • One participant mentions that the potential barrier for proton-proton fusion is equivalent to approximately 10 billion K, suggesting that tunneling is necessary for fusion to occur in stars.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of quantum tunneling for fusion at lower masses, with some asserting it is essential while others suggest that sufficient kinetic energy could allow for fusion without tunneling. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the role of quantum tunneling in nuclear reactions at various mass thresholds.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about the conditions under which fusion occurs, the definitions of critical mass, and the specifics of quantum tunneling's role in nuclear reactions.

ugalpha
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without having to rely on quantum channeling
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
The basic process of star formation is that they emerge due to accretion of enough matter to reach a critical mass* of approximately 80 times Jupiter's, at which point internal pressures raise the core temperatures high enough to ignite nuclear fusion.
The core has to get to about 15 million K, although some say about 10 million K.
http://burro.cwru.edu/stu/advanced/stars_birth.html

The sun's mass is about 1048 times the mass of Jupiter, so a mass of hydrogen must have about 0.13 solar mass to start fusion with the pp-chain. This assumes that the cloud from which the star forms is mostly hydrogen.

http://www.duke.edu/~teb/stars/nebula.html

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast222/lectures/lec11.html

On the distribution of protostar masses by Philip C. Myers - http://arxiv.org/abs/0910.3120 - or -
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0910/0910.3120.pdf

See also - http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/687/1/340/fulltext/75147.text.html
 
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ugalpha said:
without having to rely on quantum channeling

Are you referring to Quantum Tunneling? I've never heard of Quantum Channeling.
 
can fusion at 0.13 solar masses occur without quantum tunneling?

infact can nuclear reactions occur without tunneling or can sufficent kinetic energy convey enough energy to get nuclei into actual contact?
 
goldsax said:
can fusion at 0.13 solar masses occur without quantum tunneling?

I don't believe so. Even at 1 solar mass quantum tunneling is responsible for allowing the proton-proton chain to start by allowing two protons to tunnel close enough to each other for fusion to occur.

infact can nuclear reactions occur without tunneling or can sufficent kinetic energy convey enough energy to get nuclei into actual contact?

Yes, however tunneling will always increase the reaction rate by allowing nuclei that wouldn't normally have enough energy to overcome the columb barrier tunnel through. Even at temperatures high enough for fusion to occur without tunneling, the temperature is only an average. Some particles will be higher and some will be lower. Tunneling allows some of those that are lower to fuse.
 
ugalpha said:
without having to rely on quantum channeling

Why even ask? Seems like a pointless question.
 
qraal said:
Why even ask? Seems like a pointless question.

I forgot to add that the potential barrier in p-p fusion is the equivalent of ~10 billion K. That's far too high to occur in any star without tunnelling. And is also why p-p fusion is so very, very slow. Fortunately for all life on Earth.
 

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