How much mass does 'Dark Matter' and 'Nothing' (empty space) have?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mass of dark matter and the concept of mass associated with empty space, including virtual particles and zero point energy. Participants explore the implications of these concepts within the context of the universe's composition and gravitational effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that dark matter and baryonic matter together comprise about 1/4 of the universe's total energy content according to the LCDM model.
  • One participant seeks specific mass figures rather than ratios, indicating a desire for concrete numbers related to dark matter and empty space.
  • Another participant provides an estimate of 0.23 joules per cubic kilometer for matter and radiation, suggesting that dark matter constitutes about 5/6 of this value.
  • It is mentioned that the mass equivalent of this energy is approximately 2.56 x 10-18 kilograms per cubic kilometer.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the mass of empty space, arguing that it does not have mass comparable to dark or ordinary matter.
  • There is a discussion about the cosmological constant, with some participants questioning its association with "dark energy" and suggesting it is better referred to simply as a constant in the law of gravity.
  • Another participant emphasizes that solid numbers are meaningless without context, asserting that ratios are more meaningful in cosmological discussions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mass of empty space and the interpretation of the cosmological constant. There is no consensus on the significance of solid mass figures versus ratios in understanding dark matter and empty space.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the ambiguity in defining mass in relation to empty space and the complexities involved in quantifying dark matter. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of energy-mass equivalence and the role of the cosmological constant.

Rorkster2
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I know these are ambiguous questions and am probably opening up a complex can of worms. I figure if we know how much of the universe is composed of dark matter and it's effects, we should also have an idea about its mass from its gravitational pull. Also I figure since truelly empty space also has a nearly infinite presents of virtual particles and contains zero point energy, that it might have a definitive 'mass' we can associate with it.
 
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Baryonic [neutrons, protons, etc.] and non-baryonic [dark matter] comprises about 1/4 of the total energy content of the universe under the LCDM model.
 
Chronos said:
Baryonic [neutrons, protons, etc.] and non-baryonic [dark matter] comprises about 1/4 of the total energy content of the universe under the LCDM model.

Thanks but I'm not asking about ratios, I'm more interested in solid numbers.
 
Anyone here have any insight into this?
 
Matter and radiation together are estimated to amount to about 0.23 joule per cubic kilometer (energy equivalent).

About 5/6 of this is dark matter, and 1/6 is ordinary matter. The contribution from radiation is very slight.

If you paste this into google :
.23 joule/c^2
it will tell you 2.56 x 10-18 kilogram
That is how much mass per cubic kilometer.
I find the mass figure hard to remember and how to make intuitive. So I remember the energy equivalent of it. You can always divide energy by c2 to get the mass equivalent.

I don't think that empty space has any mass comparable to what I just told you comes from actual matter (dark, ordinary) and radiation.
The cosmological constant is just that, a constant in the law of gravity. There is no convincing evidence that it corresponds to some weird "dark energy" although some people talk about it that way.

Dark matter has turned out to be real, concentrations of it can be mapped and it has played an important role in the formation of galaxies etc. But "dark energy" has been something of a passing fad. Increasingly in scientific papers the authors simply refer to the cosmological constant as that, and don't use the term "dark energy."

If the cosmological constant WERE a manifestation of some kind of "dark energy" then that energy would be 0.60 joules per cubic kilometer. So the total would be 0.83 joules per km3.
 
marcus said:
2.56 x 10-18 kilogram
That is how much mass per cubic kilometer.
I find the mass figure hard to remember and how to make intuitive.
About twenty million atoms plus about five times the mass in dark matter. Typical small swimming pool is about 10m on a side and 1m-ish deep. You're talking 2-ish atoms in the whole thing plus about five times as much dark matter.

Compare the normal contents of a swimming pool, around 1031 water molecules.
 
'Solid' numbers are absolutely meaningless without comparison. Ratios are as good as we can get from cosmology.
 

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