How to solve a differential equation using substitution?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a differential equation using substitution methods, specifically focusing on the equation $$(x-y)dx+xdy=0$$. Participants explore various substitution techniques, their implications, and the steps involved in the process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using the substitution $$u=x-y$$ but finds inconsistencies in the resulting equation.
  • Another participant proposes rewriting the ODE as $$\d{y}{x}=\frac{y}{x}-1$$ and suggests the substitution $$v=\frac{y}{x}$$, leading to a different form of the equation.
  • Several participants express confusion about the overall procedure for substitution and the criteria for choosing an appropriate substitution.
  • One participant questions the definition of a "term" in the context of the substitution process.
  • Another participant attempts a substitution and arrives at a solution but questions the validity of their steps and the correctness of the answer key.
  • Some participants point out invalid steps in the integration process and emphasize the importance of treating variables correctly during integration.
  • Hints are provided regarding the treatment of variables in integrals, specifically questioning whether $$x$$ should be considered constant with respect to $$u$$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct substitution and the validity of certain steps in the solution process. There is no consensus on the best approach or the correctness of the solutions presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential misunderstandings in the integration process and the treatment of variables, indicating that the discussion may be limited by varying levels of familiarity with differential equations and substitution techniques.

find_the_fun
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Solve the DE using an appropriate substitution.

$$(x-y)dx+xdy=0$$

First step is to determine the substitution. I was told for homogeneous ODEs to always make the substitution y=ux but the substitution u=x-y looks better.

Let u = x-y then u'=-y' which means y'=-u'
rewrite the original equation x-y+xy'-o
now plugging in u and u' gives u+x(-u')=0 which gives x du = -u dx and integrating gives xu=-ux which doesn't make any sense.
 
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I would first rewrite the ODE as:

$$\d{y}{x}=\frac{y}{x}-1$$

Using the substitution $$v=\frac{y}{x}$$, we then get:

$$\d{v}{x}=-\frac{1}{x}$$

Can you proceed?
 
MarkFL said:
I would first rewrite the ODE as:

$$\d{y}{x}=\frac{y}{x}-1$$

Using the substitution $$v=\frac{y}{x}$$, we then get:

$$\d{v}{x}=-\frac{1}{x}$$

Can you proceed?

I don't really know what the overall procedure is when it comes to substitution. Wikibooks states the procedure is
  1. Take a term of the equation and replace it with a variable v. The key is that the new variable must cover all instances of the variable y. Otherwise substitution would not help.
  2. Solve for
    efaf9f3a22dad4658696b0ea9c0c7139.png
    in terms of
    9e3669d19b675bd57058fd4664205d2a.png
    and
    5d5f6df9523292d6aa38007fa3bae316.png
    . To do this, take the equation
    c385ad71be53fe3c6e48d7e2a31d04b7.png
    where
    8fa14cdd754f91cc6554c9e71929cce7.png
    is the term you replaced and take its derivative.
  3. Plug in
    5d5f6df9523292d6aa38007fa3bae316.png
    and solve for
    9e3669d19b675bd57058fd4664205d2a.png
    .
  4. Plug
    9e3669d19b675bd57058fd4664205d2a.png
    into the original term replaced, and solve for
    415290769594460e2e485922904f345d.png
    .

I'm unclear on the first step. How do you know what the substitution should be? What made you say let [math]v=\frac{y}{x}[/math]? EDIT: in step 1 they say "take a term", what's a term?
 
find_the_fun said:
I don't really know what the overall procedure is when it comes to substitution. Wikibooks states the procedure is
  1. Take a term of the equation and replace it with a variable v. The key is that the new variable must cover all instances of the variable y. Otherwise substitution would not help.
  2. Solve for in terms of and . To do this, take the equation where is the term you replaced and take its derivative.
  3. Plug in and solve for .
  4. Plug into the original term replaced, and solve for .

I'm unclear on the first step. How do you know what the substitution should be? What made you say let [math]v=\frac{y}{x}[/math]? EDIT: in step 1 they say "take a term", what's a term?

A term is simply a part of the function.

It comes from experience knowing to substitute v = y/x. In general, if it CAN be written like a function of y/x, when the substitution should be valid and give you a separable DE in terms of v and x.
 
Ok I think I'm starting to understand. One attempt I made led me to the wrong answer, where did I go wrong?

$$(x-y)dx + xdy=0$$
let $$y =ux$$ then $$dy=x du + u dx$$
Plugging in $$(x-ux)dx+x^2du+xu dx = 0 $$
simplifies to [math]x^2du+xdx=0[/math]
so one solution is $$x=0$$ (or should it be y?)

Now we can factor out an x so $$x(x du + dx)=0 \implies xdu+dx=0
$$

Now can we just integrate so [math]\int x du + \int dx = xu+x+C=0[/math] putting back in $$u=\frac{y}{x}$$ gives $$x \frac{y}{x} +x+C \implies y=-x+C$$ but the answer key has [math]y+xln|x|=xC[/math]
 
Your substitution is correct, but at the end you do some invalid steps.
We need to solve $xdu+dx=0$. Separable of the variables yields
$$-xdu = dx \Leftrightarrow -du = \frac{dx}{x} \Leftrightarrow -u = \ln|x|+C$$
Back-substitution gives
$$\frac{-y}{x}=\ln|x|+C$$
and hence the solution is $-y = x \ln|x|+Cx \Rightarrow y + x \ln|x|=Cx$.
 
Siron said:
Your substitution is correct, but at the end you do some invalid steps.
We need to solve $xdu+dx=0$. Separable of the variables yields
$$-xdu = dx \Leftrightarrow -du = \frac{dx}{x} \Leftrightarrow -u = \ln|x|+C$$
Back-substitution gives
$$\frac{-y}{x}=\ln|x|+C$$
and hence the solution is $-y = x \ln|x|+Cx \Rightarrow y + x \ln|x|=Cx$.

Can you point out which steps are invalid so I don't repay them again.
 
Hint:
Take a closer look at [math]\int xu~du[/math]. Is x a constant with respect to u?

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
Hint:
Take a closer look at [math]\int xu~du[/math]. Is x a constant with respect to u?

-Dan

No, x is a variable used by u. So what does that matter? And where did I use [math]\int xu~du[/math]?
 
  • #10
As Topsquark already said, Take a closer look at your post:
find_the_fun said:
Now can we just integrate so [math]\int x du + \int dx = xu+x+C=0[/math]

You claim: $\int x du = x u$, which means that you've treated $x$ as a constant. But the integral is with respect to $u$ and $u$ is a function of $x$.
 
Last edited:

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