How Would Earth Handle Alien Money?

[Bab5space]

In the USA if you go to Mexico your money is worth a lot more over there.

Likewise if you are a scifi alien with a scifi starship your money should go much farther in the USA than it would on your homeworld.The question is... how far?
How much would a human nation realistically let alien money devalue their own money?On the other side of the coin, the aliens will want and expect their money to out value the dollar, since they sell more advanced consumer goods than the USA would.

But there must be a balance struck so that both the aliens and the USA are happy, with neither side feeling like they are losing.

So how much should alien money devalue the dollar?

Like dollars to pesos? Or much more? Less?

DiscussEDIT: it depends on whether or nor US citizens are buying a massive amount of alien product.

If so, the dollar will be devalued some... I think?

 

[256bits]

It would be more like bitcoin.

 

[Vanadium 50]

It would be more like the stone money of Yap.

 

[Bab5space]

It would be more like bitcoin.

So one alien credit equals over a thousand USD?Even so... it got me thinking.

Governments would put limits on what the aliens could buy I bet.

Like I do not think they want the aliens buying real estate or land.

Let the aliens buy whatever they want and they can subtlely dominate the planet without firing a shot. Which governments do not take kindly. People have been killed over that IRL by governments.

 

[member 656954]

Likewise if you are a scifi alien with a scifi starship your money should go much farther in the USA than it would on your homeworld.

You're making a ton of assumptions here. Money is a medium of exchange, and it does not automatically follow that the exchange will be to the aliens advantage. I can imagine a damaged ship scenario where Earthlings have the upper hand.

It also assumes the aliens want to exchange things. Perhaps there is nothing we have that they need. Or, they may have nothing we want. Unlikely, but possible.

Or they may be a post-scarcity economy where money is not used.

Or they may be altruistic and give their intellectual property away, no charge, thank us later, puny Humans.

But there must be a balance struck so that both the aliens and the USA are happy

LOL, no, there doesn't have to be. When the aliens arrive, we're the Aztecs and they're the Spanish. Nations will tear themselves apart to obtain the alien tech. Our economies will crash, wars are likely to be fought, religions will twist themselves in knots retrofitting alien life into their scriptures, and fear will sweep the world. Read Greg Costikyan's excellent First Contract for an engaging view on this concept.

 

[Vanadium 50]

It would be more like bitcoin.

So one alien credit equals over a thousand USD?

THAT's what you concluded from that message?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Or they may be altruistic and give their intellectual property away, no charge, thank us later, puny Humans.

e.g. Species That worked out well.

 

[Mark44]

In the USA if you go to Mexico your money is worth a lot more over there.

Likewise if you are a scifi alien with a scifi starship your money should go much farther in the USA than it would on your homeworld.

I don't think you understand how currency exchange rates work. Right now, the Mexican peso is worth $.053, or a bit over a nickel. Relative to prices in the U.S., some things are cheaper and some are more expensive. For example, in Mexico City, the price of Levi jeans is about 890 pesos, or about $44.50 US. One kg of apples is 40 pesos, or about $2 US. A 900 sq. ft. apartment in a "normal" area (not the most expensive area) is about 13,100 pesos, or about $655. Items imported from other countries can be very expensive, due to import tariffs.

On the other hand, a Swiss frank is worth $1.03, but the cost of living there is pretty high. For example, a combo meal in a fast food place can cost CHF 14, or about $15. A pair of Levis can cost CHF 108, quite a lot more than their cost in the US, even though the two currencies are about equivalent.

 

[phinds]

I don't think you understand how currency exchange rates work.

 

[Vanadium 50]

the cost of living there [Switzerland] is pretty high.

And 10 CHF for a jar of peanut butter! And the only thing good about gasoline prices is that at least it's cheaper than France!

 

[member 656954]

e.g. Species That worked out well.

Yeah, classic mad scientist mangles alien tech trope! Or, poor plot adds semi-naked cute girl and rakes in millions brilliance! Take your pick

 

[256bits]

So one alien credit equals over a thousand USD?

Digital currency as we have seen is followed by a small group of "investors" .
And as we have seen the price fluctuates wildly from day to day month to month.
Most people would want to stay away from it and do.

 

[Vanadium 50]

My question about that movie was "How did they get Ben Kingsley? Contractual obligation? Or did he lose a bet?"

I'm also surprised that they didn't get more guff for the premise - "She may look like a nice girl, but underneath she is a cold-blooded monster hell-bent on reproduction: and if that happens, it will end life as you know it."

 

[member 656954]

My question about that movie was "How did they get Ben Kingsley? Contractual obligation? Or did he lose a bet?"

Not to mention Forest Whitaker and Marg Helgenberger. And even H. R. Giger, famous for the alien in Alien. As for the premise, it's not the worst in sci-fi movie history, though it certainly wasn't strong.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Well Species was before The Last King of Scotland, so I can explain away Whitaker by "work is work". But Kingsley had his Oscar by then.

And it wasn't a terrible movie. Just not as good as the studio thought.

 

[Keith_McClary]

In a similar vein: "The Big Pat Boom" by Damon Knight
Video adaptation

 

[VictorMedvil]

I think it would be dependent on the exchange rate, let's say the alien money was made of thorium then it would be worth the price of its weight in thorium, It also depends on other things how much alien money could buy a gram of antimatter versus our money, antimatter is estimated to be worth in the trillions, if many people wanted to buy antimatter from the alien world then their currency would be worth a lot of money our money as it could be used to buy it at cheaper prices than our money. It's all about supply and demand for their money the actual value of it. It all depends on the advancement of the products available on alien home-world or colonies. If they were more advanced than let's say Earth you would assume that many people would want alien currency to buy their products, where as if they are less advanced the products would not be as in "High" of demand thus less people would want to buy them and thus gain alien currency.

Edit:

Also, let's say if the aliens used Carbon Fusion as a power source they could value Hydrogen at much higher amounts of money than humans do, thus the actual value on certain material items would be different between our world and their world, they could value something like Hydrogen as 1000 per kg of their dollars that humans value at 1 per kg, basically if the demand for a certain product is higher then there could be material items that are overvalued in their economy due to demand. Even the reverse could be true back to the antimatter example, let's say the aliens have a way to bulk make anti-matter which humans don't then they could value antimatter at lower amounts of currency then humans as it goes back to the supply of a certain material. Let's say anti-matter is 1,000,000 per gram alien currency and 62,000,000,000 per gram our currency because of supply.

Every detail about the technology and psychology of humans vs aliens will effect the overall value of the currencies in your story.

 

[Bab5space]

I think it would be dependent on the exchange rate, let's say the alien money was made of thorium then it would be worth the price of its weight in thorium, It also depends on other things how much alien money could buy a gram of antimatter versus our money, antimatter is estimated to be worth in the trillions, if many people wanted to buy antimatter from the alien world then their currency would be worth a lot of money our money as it could be used to buy it at cheaper prices than our money. It's all about supply and demand for their money the actual value of it. It all depends on the advancement of the products available on alien home-world or colonies. If they were more advanced than let's say Earth you would assume that many people would want alien currency to buy their products, where as if they are less advanced the products would not be as in "High" of demand thus less people would want to buy them and thus gain alien currency.

Edit:

Also, let's say if the aliens used Carbon Fusion as a power source they could value Hydrogen at much higher amounts of money than humans do, thus the actual value on certain material items would be different between our world and their world, they could value something like Hydrogen as 1000 per kg of their dollars that humans value at 1 per kg, basically if the demand for a certain product is higher then there could be material items that are overvalued in their economy due to demand. Even the reverse could be true back to the antimatter example, let's say the aliens have a way to bulk make anti-matter which humans don't then they could value antimatter at lower amounts of currency then humans as it goes back to the supply of a certain material. Let's say anti-matter is 1,000,000 per gram alien currency and 62,000,000,000 per gram our currency because of supply.

Every detail about the technology and psychology of humans vs aliens will effect the overall value of the currencies in your story.

Thank you. A meaningful and useful answer.

 

[BWV]

Read about the 18th-19th century China trade and the opium wars, good illustration of trade across cultures with differing concepts of money and value. Alien money would be valued like any other currency - based on its utility to obtain goods or services that people value.

 

[member 656954]

Thank you. A meaningful and useful answer.

So what? The other answers weren't

Honestly, anything is possible from your question because you are writing the story, so you set the scene. You get to decide what the parameters are, you get to decide how the cast react, you get to decide what the economic constraints are...you get to decide every aspect so you can make it go how you like.

Without any idea of your plot or what point your story is intending to make, we're just shooting the breeze here and any observation is as good as any other.

 

[RPinPA]

More than one sci-fi author has tackled the question of what aliens would trade for whatever they want from Earth.

Two that come to mind are "The Big Front Yard" by Clifford Simak and "Craphound" by Cory Doctorow. In Craphound the aliens are bringing big technological ideas that make people rich, so they can get a pile of Earth money which they use to visit yard sales and garage sales (hence the title). I think it was an exchange of ideas in Simak's story also. That makes more sense than trying to take an alien coin. What good is an alien coin to us if we can't go to the alien store to spend it?

 

[Bab5space]

What good is an alien coin to us if we can't go to the alien store to spend it?

Indeed... the solution is to twofold.1. Bring the alien store to them.

2. Bring them to the alien store. Have alien starship? Will travel.Both can be rich story material.

In the case of one, the issues are a bunch of human regulatuve redtape and security.

In the case of 2 humans are selling their stuff to get a ride on the interstellar express and then vist some alien world civiluzation and buy more stuff there to bring back.

One thing is certain... Earth would change, what with humans playing with advanced alien technoligies.

 

[stefan r]

So one alien credit equals over a thousand USD?Even so... it got me thinking.

Governments would put limits on what the aliens could buy I bet.

Like I do not think they want the aliens buying real estate or land.

Let the aliens buy whatever they want and they can subtlely dominate the planet without firing a shot. Which governments do not take kindly. People have been killed over that IRL by governments.

Which government would block an alien purchase of Sedna? What about the other big Sednoid that we have not found yet? I think NASA would greatly appreciate a detailed inventory of the contents of the Sednoid that NASA has not found yet. It would cost many $ billions to set up a drilling rig in the Kuiper belt. A detailed receipt listing the items taken and not paid for would have immense value.

Our governments have no means by which to fire a shot.

I think it would be dependent on the exchange rate, let's say the alien money was made of thorium then it would be worth the price of its weight in thorium,

The value and exchanges will depend on many variables. But you can make a list of fundamentals that will have some value. Energy, momentum, neutron content, scarcity, information, and useful complexity are things we can recognize and will likely be recognized by any civilized life.

Gold is often used as a standard today and is assumed to have nearly fixed value. Gold has scarcity on Earth. Launching gold into space adds energy value. Using it in satellite components adds complexity. This is worth doing and has been done. Getting the satellite back and extracting the gold would cost us a lot of energy. So that is not done.

If you have a voucher for an ounce of gold located in a bank is Switzerland the voucher has lower value on Europa than a voucher for an ounce of gold located in a bank on Ganymede. On the other hand if a colonist intended to return to Earth after working on Europa then the Swiss bank notes would have high value. It is not just distance, the delta-v between points would be more important. You can be the same distance from the Sun but orbiting at a different inclination than the bank which might make it challenging to cash the check. Exchanging energy and momentum can be done but only if you have an abundance of propellant. In some circumstances in space the momentum content can be more important than the energy.

The neutron content effects the perception of scarcity if technology allows easy access to fusion and transmutation. Deuterium will be worth more than hydrogen. Calcium-48 will retain extremely high value. gold, the platinum group metals, and the actinide series (includes thorium) will be more valuable than lower mass metals like iron or magnesium. If you have a shortage of mercury or lead you could bombard gold with neutrons and make the mercury.
Lithium and helium-3 have high energy content and are likely to be valuable to a civilization with fusion capability. The type or types of fusion available will profoundly effect the relative value. A-neutronic fusion space ships will value helium-3 or boron. If your fusion reactor requires tritium then lithium is essential. These differences are still the accessible energy content. If you are using large amounts of deuterium while traveling through space you can make s-process elements by irradiating them in the engines. So those elements/isotopes will likely have low exchange value.

... let's say the aliens have a way to bulk make anti-matter which humans don't then they could value antimatter at lower amounts of currency then humans as it goes back to the supply of a certain material. ..

The obvious exchange is technology for material.

 

[MikeeMiracle]

Honestly can't think of any valuable exchange. We are desperate to mine asteroids for resources, the alients could get them from the asteroids directly. There is nothing special that is unique to us here on Earth that I can see would have any value to the Aliens...

...well almost...

...the only unique thing the Earth has which is Life itself, perhaps we could exchange biological life if they had a need for it? Maybe the "Bee's" on their planet had become extinct and they need a natural method for polonation perhaps?

Something along those lines would be the most likely option in my opinion.

 

[Bab5space]

Honestly can't think of any valuable exchange. We are desperate to mine asteroids for resources, the alients could get them from the asteroids directly. There is nothing special that is unique to us here on Earth that I can see would have any value to the Aliens...

...well almost...

...the only unique thing the Earth has which is Life itself, perhaps we could exchange biological life if they had a need for it? Maybe the "Bee's" on their planet had become extinct and they need a natural method for polonation perhaps?

Something along those lines would be the most likely option in my opinion.

Hmmm... it's all in the details, especially the honeworld environment.

A somewhat Earth-like world is not a bad start, especially considering that oxygen provides a lot of energy for lifeforms.

Yet differences can easily crop up from there. For example, a world with more oxygen that was very humid throughout (misty air 24/7 except in the highlands) would have bigger bugs and dinosaurs would likely still thrive too.

The kinds of lifeforms modern Earth has are arguably smaller than they were in the dinosaur epoch. Thus an alien world with dinos I could see wanting smaller size animals as a luxury if nothing else.

 

[Vanadium 50]

The kinds of lifeforms modern Earth has are arguably smaller than they were in the dinosaur epoch.

Hogwash.

The largest animal that ever lived is alive in historic times. The tallest plant that ever lived is alive in historic times.

 

[MikeeMiracle]

Yes the Blue Whale is the largest animal ever and the Giant Redwood is the biggest tree ever. I guess the question is what made dinosours bigger and was it the Oxygen content available. I believe we had over 20% atmospheric Oxygen in the times of the Dinosours (24% i think it was) where as now Oxygen only makes up 16% of the atmosphere.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I guess the question is what made dinosours bigger and was it the Oxygen content available

That is not supported by the facts.

believe we had over 20% atmospheric Oxygen in the times of the Dinosours (24% i think it was) where as now Oxygen only makes up 16% of the atmosphere.

It's 21% today. It was at a similar level at the end of the Mesozoic and at the very beginning (and when large land animals were comparable in size as today's) but lower through the majority of it.

 

[member 656954]

We are desperate to mine asteroids for resources, the alients could get them from the asteroids directly.

Fun as talking about dinosaurs is, you would expect that aliens able to journey between the stars would have their resource needs met as @MikeeMiracle notes, so non-resources-based exchange motivations could be:

1. Curiosity driven - benevolent intent
2. Artistic / Cultural - benevolent intent
3. 'Religious' fervor - benevolent from their perspective, probably
4. Dominion oriented - malevolent intent
5. Incidental contact - no intent, just passing through

Each of these scenarios has any number of excellent stories written against them, but the assumption of currency exchange is that such a concept even applies to aliens. If it does, where Humanity stands in terms of exchange value depends on our comparative level to the aliens.

@Bab5space's OP suggests to me that we're not a space faring culture, so we are behind the aliens at the technological level at least, in which case our desire would likely be for the aliens to share technology and science knowledge. But if we are equal or superior, the exchange basis obviously changes.

Ultimately, whatever narrative an author is telling will dictate the 'exchange rate', but unless we are at comparable cultural levels, it is unlikely to be anything familiar to our current exchange rate experience because of all the non-monetary system consequences alien interaction will trigger.