How you were accepted into college during the preindustrial era

[noblegas]

Did they even have entry level exams to use to determined if students would be admitted into a universities back in the 1600's and prior to that time or are the college entry exams a 20th century creation and only the very wealthy attended college up until the introduction of entry exams and meritocracy were used for admitting students.

 

[tiny-tim]

Hi noblegas!

At Oxford and Cambridge (the only two English universities before 1800), admission was to the college rather than to the university, and was called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriculation#United_Kingdom".

I don't think there was any entrance exam until Responsions (in Oxford) or Previous Examination (in Cambridge) were introduced, I think just after 1800 … see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsions"

 

[mgb_phys]

And remember the only thing they really taught were latin and greek - so you could become a clergyman. So the entry test was pretty much just translation.

 

[daveg360]

are the college entry exams a 20th century creation and only the very wealthy attended college up until the introduction of entry exams and meritocracy were used for admitting students.

hahahahaha oh that's a good one! meritocracy! lol although I guess being able to throw "a great spiral pass" is a merit to some. The U.K aint much better if I'm honest though... :(

 

[cristo]

The U.K aint much better if I'm honest though... :(

It's only going to get worse as universities are given the freedom to increase tuition fees without limit (though I don't think one can get admitted to university solely on sports talent over here...)

 

[mgb_phys]

though I don't think one can get admitted to university solely on sports talent over here...)

Except for US olympic rowers

 

[f95toli]

It's only going to get worse as universities are given the freedom to increase tuition fees without limit (though I don't think one can get admitted to university solely on sports talent over here...)

Hm, some of the rowers in Oxford and Cambridge aren't exactly famous for their academic achivements...

 

[mgb_phys]

A few years ago there was so many professional rowers on post-grad courses at the Dept. of Land Economy at Cambridge that they were planning to rename the dept because it had become a joke.

 

[cristo]

My point is that it is not nearly as widespread as football 'scholarships' are in the US. I think we can safely discard Oxford and Cambridge when talking about universities in general!

 

[mgb_phys]

My point is that it is not nearly as widespread as football 'scholarships' are in the US.

Give it a few years, we have spent the last decade pretty much copying every innovation in the US public school system.
About the only US educational project not adopted was Sesame street - about the only thing that worked!

 

[tiny-tim]

Trivium and quadrivium

And remember the only thing they really taught were latin and greek - so you could become a clergyman. So the entry test was pretty much just translation.

Hi mgb_phys!

No, they were taught first the three subjects known as the trivium: grammar logic and rhetoric, and then the four arts known as the quadrivium: arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy.

So the trivial subjects (yes, that is where it comes from! ) would have needed Latin (and maybe some Greek), but the arts were essentially maths and music, and wouldn't have (except of course that a lot of the texts would have been in Latin or Greek).

And yes, every clergyman needed a degree, but that doesn't mean that every degree produced a clergyman (if you'd studied logic and rhetoric in medieval Oxford, you'd have known all about that! )

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrivium" …

The quadrivium comprised the four subjects, or arts, taught in medieval universities after the trivium. The word is Latin, meaning "the four ways" or "the four roads": the completion of the liberal arts. The quadrivium consisted of arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy. These followed the preparatory work of the trivium made up of grammar, logic (or dialectic, as it was called at the times), and rhetoric. In turn, the quadrivium was considered preparatory work for the serious study of philosophy and theology.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivium_(education)#Description"

 

[noblegas]

Hi mgb_phys!

No, they were taught first the three subjects known as the trivium: grammar logic and rhetoric, and then the four arts known as the quadrivium: arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy.

So the trivial subjects (yes, that is where it comes from! ) would have needed Latin (and maybe some Greek), but the arts were essentially maths and music, and wouldn't have (except of course that a lot of the texts would have been in Latin or Greek).

And yes, every clergyman needed a degree, but that doesn't mean that every degree produced a clergyman (if you'd studied logic and rhetoric in medieval Oxford, you'd have known all about that! )

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrivium" …See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivium_(education)#Description"

From reading the article on medieval universities you provided, I know how medieval universities were developed and what subjects were taught at the university and that a course you signed up for was based on the book that was assigned for the class. However, it still does not explain how you were admitted into a university and whether or not the wealthy were only admitted and what kind of grading system they used to determine if a student passed the course that they were taken.

 

[f95toli]

And yes, every clergyman needed a degree, but that doesn't mean that every degree produced a clergyman (if you'd studied logic and rhetoric in medieval Oxford, you'd have known all about that! )

It also doesn't mean that people who did get degrees actually knew anything about the subject. It was for example not at all unusal for students to pay someone else to write their thesis.
Carl von Linné (the famous botanist) used to supplement his income by writing theses for his students when he was a professor in Uppsala, note that this was not considered cheating in any way since the main idea of the thesis defence was for the student to show that he could defend an idea in front of an audience (in latin).
Also, far from all students attended lectures. Spending a couple of years at a university was simply considered part of the upbringing among the upper classes.

 

[tiny-tim]

However, it still does not explain how you were admitted into a university …

Yes, I can't find any information on that …

I assume that there was no entrance exam or other entrance requirement until about 1800.

… and whether or not the wealthy were only admitted …

There were scholarships for poor students right through from at least the thirteenth century until the present day.

… It was for example not at all unusal for students to pay someone else to write their thesis.

I'm pretty sure medieval English undergraduates never wrote theses.

 

[mgb_phys]

the four arts known as the quadrivium: arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy.

I was thinking of 1800 when they had pretty much becoming a CofE dumping ground for younger sons.

The 4 arts came up recently.
The UG science course at Cambridge is a bit odd, in the first 2 years they have to do a range of 'natural sciences' - which means a student will work hard in their 'major' physics/chemistry and maths and then take a 'throw away' course (the first 2 years didn't count to your degree).

There are a couple of science depts that existed solely on the back of teaching the throw away course.
The astronomy dept decided to teach an ugrad course which was the most popular option for the students.
The other depts objected to the competition with a range of excuses, astronomy isn't a real science, its not useful etc and the final - we have always one it this way!

My prof came up with the ultimate argument (at least for a UK institution) of precedence. We were proposing to teach natural philosophy (physics) geometry (math) alchemy(chemistry) and finally astronomy = a perfect medieval science curriculum.