I want to sleep with my Professor

[MarcoD]

I agree with you. An imbalance of power is *never* OK in an intimate/sexual relationship. It's a recipe for disaster all around.

Two points: a) By that reasoning, people shouldn't get married. And b), in the case of -say- Clinton, it is highly debatable who had power over whom.

And a last point: Professors have authority over students? Don't make me laugh.

 

[lisab]

Two points: a) By that reasoning, people shouldn't get married. And b), in the case of -say- Clinton, it is highly debatable who had power over whom.

And a last point: Professors have authority over students? Don't make me laugh.

You may disagree over whether an imbalance of power is a big deal or not - like I said, that's mostly a culturally influenced point of view. But to think that there is no such thing approaches willful ignorance.

I won't chase your Clinton straw man.

 

[MarcoD]

You may disagree over whether an imbalance of power is a big deal or not - like I said, that's mostly a culturally influenced point of view. But to think that there is no such thing approaches willful ignorance.

I won't chase your Clinton straw man.

I am saying all relations have an imbalance of power, so that point is moot.

God, I even lived together with a student. She was my partner and some people objected to that. But, sorry, when looking at the relation, none of the rational arguments stuck, and I don't think there are any.

It seems to boil down to feeling, mostly.

 

[netgypsy]

The Clintons have a balance of power which I suspect is the reason they are still married.

I do remember a comic in the newspaper showing Hillary, Bill and Buddy at the veterinarian's office. The vet looks at Hillary and asks her "Which one is here to be neutered?"

People do stupid things and this includes very intelligent people. I did like Monica's comment though when she was being asked about their dalliance. She said something like I didn't think it was anyone else's business.

Of course the big problem here was, as is the problem with the person who originated this thread - he was married and they did not have equal power.

I would hope the young man who posted this question would look at all the trouble this caused and stick to fantasy at least until graduation.

I personally know three cases of students who actually married their teacher. The first was a young single male teacher and coach. He met the student working on a student newspaper. He somehow obviously found out the interest was mutual and immediately went to her parents. She was a senior at the time. The only times they saw each other was at her house with her parents there. She was a high school senior when they met. She went on to college and they continued dating and married after she graduated. They are still married 30 years later. This is the way it's done right.

the second one, the teacher was female and married. A real good looking woman. She knew the student as she taught him and worked with him as he was the student body president. She was married to an older man. The story was, the older man had "problems" and he refused to deal with them. She eventually divorced him and in a year or so began dating the former student who had now graduated from college and worked for a mortgage bank. They are still happily married after 15 years. Another one that was done right.

The last case was a 15 year old young man and his female teacher. They were caught in the proverbial compromising situation. They did marry but people who know them well say there is a power problem in this one.

So if there really is potential for a lasting relationship a few years doesn't make much difference.

 

[netgypsy]

I am saying all relations have an imbalance of power, so that point is moot.

Respectfully disagree. I know many many marriages/partnerships where the power is equal. There can be division of labor or not but there is total respect for the partner and a willingness on both parts to do 100% when needed with no asking and no complaining. They see a need and fill it.

The men in this type of relationship are very very secure in their masculinity and the women, in their femininity meaning they know they are smart and attractive and many make the effort to stay healthy and attractive regardless of age. These are the ones who are still mountain biking together in their 70's.

The cultural "differences" in power balance are interesting. I lived in a third world country for a couple of years and worked there and when I left to go over there, people in the US told me that the women in that country were essentially powerless. I found it to be quite the opposite. The middle and upper class women were more empowered and independent than women in the US at the time and the working poor women were also very much empowered and valued by their spouses. Birth control was widely available and free in many cases 35 years ago in that country so women had control over their reproduction and therefore their economic situation. Of course there were those who were not in balanced relationships but people come in such a wide variety of types that's going to happen everywhere.

A male relative once told his brother he would never marry a woman smarter than he was. A number of my nerdy male friends feel the same way. But my male chemistry professor told all the guys in my huge lecture class - find the smartest woman who will have you and marry her. You will NEVER be sorry. And this was a million years ago. I stills mile when I think of him. Great teacher too and very happily married.

WOW I haven't even had any coffee yet and am seriously running on at the mouth.

 

[MarcoD]

The men in this type of relationship are very very secure in their masculinity and the women, in their femininity meaning they know they are smart and attractive and many make the effort to stay healthy and attractive regardless of age. These are the ones who are still mountain biking together in their 70's.

Well, you didn't convince me with that. I could rephrase it as to that I find it meaningless to talk about 'balances of power' within adult relationships. Unless it's a totally abusive relationship, you'll never figure out what balance of power exists, whether the concept itself is an illusion, or whether other people just project it into a relationship.

If it would be about 'balance of power,' I propose we only condone same sex marriages.

 

[netgypsy]

Same sex marriages have the same problems as hetero. If one is more powerful they will bully the other in one way or another. I hope you realize I don't mean physical power. If that were true people would never be able to ride a horse - yet they can. Power is knowing the other person's currency and having what they want. When both parties can walk away, neither will bully the other if they both care enough to want the relationship to continue.

I'd love to know if you feel the same way in 30 years.

 

[I like Serena]

Many relationships start out or end up with unequal power.
I think that the key to a successful relationship is that you find a balance.

Any two people are different and each has his/her strong and weak spots.
Plenty of opportunity to (re)balance a relationship (or end it).
I believe there's no real reason to avoid a relationship just because it may start out unequal at some points.

 

[netgypsy]

When it starts out you don't really know if it will ever balance. This is the point of dating. To see if there are points of contention that are deal breakers. A friend started going out with someone who smoked. it was a deal breaker. he quit smoking. Another friend married a smoker and she quit but started back five years later. It's a huge problem.

Sometimes one party hides their real self because they want to marry the person for a variety of reasons. After the marriage the deal breakers start showing up. Another friend dated her fiance for five years before they married. She said he became a totally different person once they were married. She divorced and is now happily married to a guy she worked with for quite a while before they even went out so she knew what he was like for real.

Studies say you have two years to change a new spouse. After that - forget it. But it's a lot better if you're both honest and upfront from the beginning. It's also a bit easier if neither of you is so good looking you turn heads wherever you go. I know really good looking men and women who deliberately play down their appearance because it's annoying to have people drooling over you all the time. Not that I have any personal experience with this but I have relatives and friends who have. Caused them a lot of problems.

The mother of one of these "drop dead gorgeous" girls told me that when her daughter went to school on the first day of the fourth grade and came home to report on it her mother said well how did it go. The 9 year old sighed and said - it's the same as always - all the boys like me. the daughter actually turned out to be a very nice person but her mother worried about her all the time.

 

[MarcoD]

Same sex marriages have the same problems as hetero. If one is more powerful they will bully the other in one way or another. I hope you realize I don't mean physical power. If that were true people would never be able to ride a horse - yet they can. Power is knowing the other person's currency and having what they want. When both parties can walk away, neither will bully the other if they both care enough to want the relationship to continue.

Well, that's my point. I don't think balance is a useful metric. What should it be? 50/50, 20/80, 80/20? Even in a very traditional marriage where the man works enormous amounts of hours, and the woman stays at home with the kids, you'll never find out what the balance is, or whether it is good for them.

IMO, in order for a relationship to be wrong, somebody needs to be 'hurt' somewhere. Like real hurt, intentional by the other party and not self-inflicted. If not, there's not a lot you can say about anything when two consenting adults get involved into any transaction, giving stuff away, having sex, having relationships, getting into SM, whatever. It's a free country. (Which is why I think you'll never find an argument. It may not be wise, it may also not be very traditional, but that doesn't make it 'wrong.')

I'd love to know if you feel the same way in 30 years.

Yeah well, that makes two of us. I am not very well known for changing my opinions and I don't do it very often; I don't think I'll change my opinion on this one. Especially since in this case, I am the expert.

 

[turbo]

A sister of one of my oldest friends was about 2 years older than me. My math teacher was visiting her at home (supervised) for a while before she graduated. They have been married for over 40 years, and he is the most winning basketball coach in school history and probably in state history. When they met, he had just graduated and she was a HS Senior. Not a bad situation if you've got a bit of time to wait and know each other.

 

[lisab]

For goodness' sake, I'm not advocating a perfectly balanced power structure - that's absurd. Straw man much?

It's a bad idea to 1) date your boss, 2) date your professor, 3) date your commanding officer...etc., the list goes on.

In many cultures this falls squarely under "common sense". But I've realized that not all cultures have this point of view, so if you disagree, don't go on the attack. Simply recognize it as a cultural difference and try a drop of tolerance.

One reason is it wrecks morale of others in the group. For that reason, the person with the higher authority should exercise good judgement, self-restraint, and self-control -- that's one of the reasons those qualities are sought out in leaders.

 

[MarcoD]

It's a bad idea to 1) date your boss, 2) date your professor, 3) date your commanding officer...etc., the list goes on.

Prove why it's a bad idea. I know a lot of women who found it a great idea. (It's in general a lousy idea to start any relationship. Doesn't mean people don't do it.)

One reason is it wrecks morale of others in the group. For that reason, the person with the higher authority should exercise good judgement, self-restraint, and self-control -- that's one of the reasons those qualities are sought out in leaders.

Why would it wreck morale? The only people I know who objected were those outside of the group...

A university isn't a military school.

(I am sorry, you'll have to do better than this. These to me look like the same reasons as given against interracial relationships.)

 

[netgypsy]

Yeah well, that makes two of us. I am not very well known for changing my opinions and I don't do it very often; I don't think I'll change my opinion on this one. Especially since in this case, I am the expert.

As am I also. And it may well be that your perception of balance is not the same as mine.

People stay in dysfunctional relationships, damaging relationships, dangerous relationships, but this doesn't mean they are in a "successful" relationship. Sticking it out is not the same as finding great joy in sharing the company of someone and a life with someone you think is truly spectacular and they are equally enamored.

If one party makes 80% of the decisions and the other, 20%, that doesn't mean there is no balance. IF both are perfectly content with the decisions. If one generally initiates romantic encounters again that doesn't mean there is no balance. When there is no balance is when one person's will is imposed upon another who is unwilling but forced by some sort of threat, be it psychological, physical, monetary, etc. And saying I'll go to the ballet if you'll go to the Indy 500 is not a threat. Barter is fun. Bantering is fun. Play S & M is fun. None of these mean there is no balance.

Signs there is no balance in a relationship. One party is always apologizing. It makes no difference what the problem is, they are always saying "I'm sorry." Two friends who finally got out of really nasty relationships (one was shot, the other, beaten black and blue) said it all the time and one still does although she's no longer physically threatened.

Another one - one party always belittles the other, reverses their decisions, and so on. Sooo dumb - after all - they chose the person.

And the most common one I think is spending large sums of money without any input from the partner. Because money is power.

Balance is shown by equal respect, kindness, consideration, not by who does the dishes or pays the bills. In a balanced relationship when a partner needs a little help, it's there. When they're crabby they don't blame each other. Both parties are happy and confident in each other. They have each other's back. Other than that there are all sorts of differences. Some may even be bizarre but who cares (unless they are both serial killers or something really nasty). The point is, there is earned trust and value in the relationship.

Yes there are some mother/son and father/daughter types of romantic relationships but they may fail when the dependent partner grows up although sometimes the other will adjust. Of course sometimes the older one dies first since there is frequently an age disparity in these. But they can still be balanced in the sense that the deferred to partner always considers the desires and opinions of the other and the submissive partner really appreciate and values the partner's expertise. This is still balanced.

So all this excess verbiage is saying is that a balanced relationship does not mean identical or equal in anything other than the amount of value each places on the other and on the relationship. If this isn't both equal and fairly high, there will be problems.

 

[MarcoD]

Netgypsy, it all sounds reasonable, and I tend to agree, but there are no absolute truths in relationships. I find that a good thing.

For most people, if there's nothing to nag about anymore, the relationship also ends. So I don't think people should strive that much for 'balance,' unless they're over fifty-something.

I don't think I have anything interesting to say on this subject, actually, so I'll give up on discussing it.

 

[netgypsy]

You're on a physics forum and you don't understand balance. I hope you realize I'm joking. There are two types of balance - static and dynamic. You can have either in the physical world but in a relationship it's the dynamic type, like balancing a pencil on the point. If it starts going off a bit one partner steadies it before it goes too far off center. It's anything but boring. There's almost no nagging in most good partnerships unless they both enjoy it. Anything's possible as long as it's fun for both and not too illegal. Why have a relationship if it's not really really fun. Not worth the trouble.

Which reminds me, in a power balanced relationship, if one gets bored, the other will check out too. Who wants to stay with someone who is more like a sibling. Speaking of the 50's and up, go visit the Villages in Florida. Younger people have a very great misconception about relationships among older people. :-)

 

[MarcoD]

Nah, I'll comment again on it. There was nothing the matter in this particular instance. Worst case, I could have had a problem with my employer -if he would have decided against it,- which I hadn't. In that case, I guess I would have resigned, which would end me one job less and a young girlfriend more. That's about it.

But people rationalize certain problems into it, where there are none. You will not find better arguments than that it goes against tradition, like an interracial relationship in the fifties, or going to work in a dress being a man. From that perspective, it just isn't a good idea.

 

[netgypsy]

Definitely valid. In the 50's people disappeared for going against tradition but that was before the internet and cell phone cameras. Today, whatever you do in public that is peculiar according to observers will end up on youtube and of course you can lose your job as several teachers have. Until I read "The Power of Postive Thinking" I fought tradition quietly whenever I could as a teen and later but when I read that book I realized you do have to pick your battles so they get you where you want to go. a very life changing and funny book. (not religious - just sensible) But a good argument is always fun unless someone gets angry.

 

[nucleargirl]

ah, don't sleep with your professor! its only fun when its all in your head and flirting. Once you actually do it, it would be like bad cosplay characters - not even close to how it looks on paper/tv/in your head! They are only human! But when they are your professor they seem like perfect humans... but its all an illusion.

 

[Doby]

Hahaha the second I saw this board, I wanted to comment. I'm actually dating my former teacher. He's no longer my teacher though. I made sure he wasn't married (was single when I met him) and was into me not just for physical stuff. He does share feelings for me and is the first guy I've met who treats me with respect. I'm not ever going to take classes with him ever again because he teaches English classes while I am taking math, science, engineering classes and have finished my English requirements. On top of that I'm transferring out of my current college to NJIT soon anyway.

Now if he were married I would never have thought of dating him. I remember when I took a class with a pretty 30 something year old professor who was married and had kids. The male students would still try to flirt with her! She would just pretend like she didn't notice they had crushes on her. I'm pretty sure she was used to it.

 

[mathwonk]

i'm never sure how seriously to take these "entertainment tonight" threads, but if you are serious, find someone else.