If the center of gravity changes on a die, how do the odds change?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the impact of changes in the center of gravity on the odds of rolling different faces on a die. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical modeling, and practical considerations related to unfair dice.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the inquiry is about the reasons behind changing probabilities or the formulas for calculating new probabilities, suggesting that leverage during rolls affects outcomes.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the nature of the change in the center of gravity could significantly influence the odds, proposing a hypothetical scenario where the center of gravity is close to the face opposite a specific number.
  • A different participant introduces a mathematical approach involving a polygonal die, discussing the dynamics of energy and angular momentum during rolls and how these factors relate to the die's resting position.
  • One participant mentions searching for techniques to roll unfair dice effectively, indicating a desire to understand how to manipulate rolling conditions for favorable outcomes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on how the center of gravity affects rolling outcomes, with no consensus on specific probabilities or methods. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact implications of different configurations of the center of gravity.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the complexity of deriving exact equations for probabilities and the dependence on specific configurations of the die, indicating limitations in their current understanding and the need for further exploration.

Ad VanderVen
Messages
169
Reaction score
13
TL;DR
If the center of gravity changes on a die, how do the odds on each of the eyes change?
If the center of gravity changes on a die, how do the odds on each of the eyes change?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: ergospherical
Physics news on Phys.org
When you say "how do", are you asking why the probabilities change, or are you asking for a formula for the new probabilities?
Why the probabilities change is because there is different leverage when they roll and they are more likely to settle into some positions than into others.
The exact equations for the probabilities are far beyond my knowledge and I will leave that to others.
 
Ad VanderVen said:
Summary:: If the center of gravity changes on a die, how do the odds on each of the eyes change?

If the center of gravity changes on a die, how do the odds on each of the eyes change?
A Google search on math of unfair die returns lots of good hits. Maybe have a look through those search results to see if you can find what you are looking for. :wink:
 
Ad VanderVen said:
If the center of gravity changes on a die, how do the odds on each of the eyes change?
Uh ... you think maybe that answer to that might depend on HOW the center of gravity changes? I could posit a die that has its COG very close to the middle of the face opposite the one. What would the odds be of rolling anything but a one?
 
Ad VanderVen said:
If the center of gravity changes on a die, how do the odds on each of the eyes change?

Interesting question! I've been playing around with a variation on it for a little while. Consider an ##n##-sided polygon in the plane of side length ##s##. Label each side with a number between ##1## and ##n##. Let the centre of mass be displaced from the centre of the polygon, toward the ##i^{\mathrm{th}}## edge, by a distance ##a##.

To analyse the dynamics, consider the change in energy & angular momentum which occur on each subsequent roll (pivoting from one edge to the next). Given an initial angular velocity ##\omega##, how many rolls does it take for the polygon to come to rest? Assuming that the edge labelled ##1## is initially in contact with the table, you can work out the relationship between the initial angular velocity and the edge on which the polygon comes to rest.
 
On a related note, I did a Google search trying to see if there is a technique to rolling unfair dice, like to you want to minimize or maximize the number of bounces and disatance travelled, etc. So far no luck with my searching. It does seem like there would be a best way to "roll" the unfair dice to get the weighting to do the best job of landing a favorable face up...
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 127 ·
5
Replies
127
Views
11K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K