Individual Protons Are Zero Mass Particles. Is Zero Mass Defined By This?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of zero mass particles, specifically focusing on photons and their implications for mass definitions in physics. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of mass, energy, and the characteristics of particles, including the relationship between mass and energy as described by E=mc².

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the concept of zero mass is defined by the properties of photons, suggesting that limitations in detection might affect our understanding.
  • Another participant clarifies that E=mc² applies to rest mass and that photons, being massless, do not fit this equation as they are never at rest.
  • There is a mention of an upper limit for photon mass, indicating that it is extremely small, but not definitively zero.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about whether particles with more motion energy have different mass characteristics compared to neutral or negatively charged elementary particles.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of kinetic energy, noting that rest energy is generally much higher than kinetic energy, and provides a formula from special relativity to illustrate this point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of zero mass, with some clarifying concepts while others remain uncertain about the relationships between mass, energy, and particle characteristics. The discussion does not reach a consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of mass and energy, as well as the implications of particle motion on these concepts. The discussion also highlights the limitations of current measurement techniques in determining particle properties.

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Individual Photons Are Zero Mass Particles. Is Zero Mass Defined By This?

Is zero mass as we know declaired because photons are theorisized to be true "weightless" and massless, or could it be a case that we do not have sensitive enough instrements and limited in our detection? Or on the other hand is their solid science backing up the theory?

Remember that E=MC^2, so that in theory in order to obtain any mass you need energy, even if it is individual 'energy bits' combined in a way beyond our understanding
 
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You typed proton in the title, though I am sure you meant photon. E=mc^2 is rest mass, but because photons are never at rest, that equation does not apply.

A photon is not a defining zero mass particle, it just happens to be one which has, to our best measurement, zero mass (An upper limit is Mass m < 10^-18 eV, which is ~10^-45) - http://pdg.lbl.gov/2009/tables/rpp2009-sum-gauge-higgs-bosons.pdf
 


Yes, Thank you. Another classic example of my mind moving faster then I can type. So as far as scientists have established, do particles have more "motion energy" then neutral or negatives 'free' elementry particles? I'm leaning towrds no but I'm not certian.
 
You mean kinetic energy?

Actually, the rest energy is usually way higher than kinetic energy. The c^2 in mc^2 is a large number.

For SR, KE = (γ - 1)mc^2, where rest energy is mc^2. So unless gamma is equal to or greater than 2, the rest energy will be greater.
 

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