Induction on P(x) for x = m to n

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of induction in mathematics, specifically a form of induction described in terms of a statement P(x) for integers x ranging from m to n. Participants explore the terminology and equivalence of different types of induction, including mathematical induction and strong induction, and whether the described method has a specific name.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a form of induction where P(m) is true and P(k) implies P(k + 1) for m ≤ k < n, questioning if this type of induction exists.
  • Another participant asserts that it is simply induction.
  • Some participants express difficulty in finding references for this specific form of induction online, suggesting that the term "mathematical induction" may be more appropriate.
  • There is mention of two commonly recognized types of induction: finite induction and mathematical induction.
  • One participant argues that the described induction falls between ordinary and strong induction, asserting that they are equivalent notions.
  • A detailed explanation of strong induction is provided, highlighting its different hypotheses compared to regular induction.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of transfinite induction as an extension to well-ordered sets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the terminology for the described induction. While some agree it is a form of mathematical induction, others suggest it may be a variation or equivalent to strong induction. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific naming of this induction type.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the terminology and definitions of induction may vary, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the implications and equivalences of the different forms of induction discussed.

e(ho0n3
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What do you call this type of induction (if it even exists):

Let P(x) be some statement concerning the integer x. If

- P(m) is true, and
- P(k) is true implies P(k + 1) is true, where m ≤ k < n,

then P(x) is true for all integers x = m, ..., n.
 
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It's just induction.
 
I've been googling around but I haven't found a single website that mentions this sort of induction. I'll take your word for it.
 
The only two terms for induction I've ever heard about are finite induction and mathematical induction.
 
e(ho0n3 said:
I've been googling around but I haven't found a single website that mentions this sort of induction. I'll take your word for it.

In the context of mathematics it's just plain induction but if you're googling then obviously you'll do better to use the full name "mathematical induction" because outside of Math the term "induction" has lots of other applications.
 
I didn't just google "induction". I tried "finite induction types" and variations thereof.
 
In this sense of the word, there is essentially only one form of induction.

Whilst we may use the terms 'induction' and 'strong induction' for two different things they are entirely equivalent notions (i.e. each one implies the other), and your notion of induction in post 1 falls between the two. It is a simple exercise to show that your description is equivalent to ordinary induction.
 
"Strong induction" asserts:

If P(1) is true and
whenever P(n) is true for all [itex]n\le k[/itex], then P(k+1) is true

Then P(n) is true for all P

It is "Strong" because the hypotheses are easier- you only have to show P(k+1) is true when P(n) is true for all [itex]n\le k[/itex] so you have "more information". It is easy to see that "strong induction" implies regular induction: if P(k+1) is true whenever P(k) is true then it is certainly the case that P(k+1) is true whenever P(n) is true for all n less than or equal to k.

The remarkable thing is that regular induction implies strong induction:

Suppose P(n) is a statement such that:
P(1) is true and
whenever P(n) is true for all n less than or equal to k, P(k+1) is true.

Let Q(n) be the statement "P(m) is true for all m less than or equal to n".

Q(1) is the statement "P(m) is true for all m less than or equal to 1". But the only natural number "less than or equal to 1" is 1 itself. Q(1) just says P(1) is true- and that's true.

Now suppose Q(k) is true. That means P(m) is true for all m less than or equal to k and so, by the induction hypothesis, P(k+1) is true. But since we already have that P(m) is true for all m less than or equal to k, we now know that P(m) is true for all k less than or equal to k+1: Q(k+1) is true. Therefore, by regular induction, Q(n) is true for all n. But Q(n) says P(m) is true for all m less than or equal to n. If Q(n) is true for all n, then P(n) is true for all n.

The statement given in the first post looks like "strong" induction restricted to n greater than or equal to m. As everyone else has said, it is equivalent (as long as n is larger than or equal to m) to regular induction.
 
  • #10
Werg22 said:
The only two terms for induction I've ever heard about are finite induction and mathematical induction.

there is also Transfinite Induction which is an extension to well-ordered sets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfinite_induction
 

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