Infinite number of spatial dimensions (maybe also time dimensions)

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mad mathematician
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of infinite spatial dimensions and its implications for theoretical physics. Participants explore mathematical frameworks, particularly in relation to Hilbert spaces, and consider the philosophical aspects of a "theory of everything" in the context of empirical testability and computability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Philosophical
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to mathematically construct a theory with an infinite number of spatial dimensions, noting the philosophical implications of such a theory being finite and empirical.
  • Another participant references countable infinite dimensional Hilbert space in quantum mechanics (QM) as a potential insight for the problem, while clarifying that spacetime in QM does not have infinite dimensions in spatial coordinates.
  • A later reply suggests that while Hilbert space may not provide a direct answer, it could help familiarize participants with the mathematics of infinite dimensional spaces.
  • One participant discusses the relationship between spatial coordinates and infinite dimensional spaces in QM, specifically mentioning the orthogonal relation involving Dirac deltas.
  • Another participant highlights the significant mathematical differences between finite and infinite-dimensional vector spaces, emphasizing that the choice of vector space is determined by the model used to describe physical phenomena.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the utility of infinite dimensional structures in physics, arguing that they may lead to philosophical constructs rather than practical applications, and stresses the importance of computability in effective theories.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of infinite dimensions for physical theories, with some emphasizing the philosophical aspects and others focusing on mathematical and computational considerations. There is no consensus on whether infinite dimensional theories can be practically useful or empirically testable.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the empirical testability of infinite dimensional theories and the necessity of computability in practical applications, suggesting that discussions may depend on specific definitions and assumptions about dimensions.

mad mathematician
Messages
144
Reaction score
24
How would one build mathematically an infinite number of spatial dimensions theory?

I can concieve mathematically an n-th vector or ##\mathbb{R}^{\infty}##, I had done so in my Topology course back then.
But obviously it's not empirically possible to test.

But is a theory of everything ought to be "finite" and empirical?
I mean obviously if there are only 4 interactions (currently known); but then again there could be more interactions around the corner.
So to encompass it all seems to me quite impossible by definition of "a theory of everything".
This post is a bit philosophical.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
We are familiar with countable infinite dimension Hilbert space in QM. You may be able to get some hint for your problem from it.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
We are familiar with countable infinite dimension Hilbert space in QM. You may be able to get some hint for your problem from it.
but spacetime in QM isn't inifinite dimensional in spatial coordinates.
 
I do not expect that learnig Hilbert space give you a direct answer to your question, but you may become familiar with mathematics of infinite dimension space with it.
mad mathematician said:
but spacetime in QM isn't inifinite dimensional in spatial coordinates.
Though I have no objection, In a view-point, 1 dimension space {x} corresponds to uncountable infinite dimension space in QM the orthogonal relation of which is
##<x|x'>=\delta(x-x')##
 
Last edited:
Hi @anuttarasammyak I know what is a Hilbert space.
x in you case is spatial coordinate, so if I want inifinite number of coordinates then I would get a product of infinite number of dirac deltas.
 
There are significant mathematical differences between finite- and infinite-dimensional vector spaces. One leads to linear algebra, the other to topological algebra. However, any vector space used in physics is only the playground, the background for the scene. It is only determined by the model we need to describe physics. As such, it is a property of our model, not a physical reality. The question is, therefore, how far our models can be taken to represent real phenomena. This is indeed a philosophical question.
 
mad mathematician said:
But is a theory of everything ought to be "finite" and empirical?
I would want it to be computable for any given confidence level, but a given "computer". So if you imagine an embedding of inifite dimensions, it would have to be constructed as some limit of computable models to be of any use.

So I agree that to entertain that the "solution" lies in some infinite dimensional structures, is going to be at least useless, that if anything gets us mathematical objects but which from perspective of physics is philosophical useless constructs. Unfortunately this is all over the place in current theories.

The similar case in hilbert space, any actual computation of a quantum mechanical problem truncates this, by an energy cutoff. So we get an effective theory that is computable, as it is indeed impossible to make finite computation otherwise.

So the practical matter of computability, is important, and not just philosophical.

/Fredrik
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
6K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
11K