Infinitesimal Mass & Distant Space: GR Effects

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of general relativity (GR) in scenarios where two masses approach zero while being separated by a distance approaching infinity. Participants explore whether a lack of mass can warp space-time and how this situation contrasts with the effects of massive objects, particularly in relation to black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the behavior of GR when two masses approach zero and are infinitely distant, seeking to understand if this leads to a different warping of space-time compared to massive objects.
  • Another participant suggests that as masses approach zero, spacetime becomes flatter and gravitational effects diminish, resembling empty space.
  • A participant challenges the common visual analogy of space-time as a rubber sheet, indicating it may be misleading and encourages further exploration of this topic within the forum.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between flat space in GR and the vacuum in quantum physics, with one participant seeking clarification on their differences.
  • A later reply inquires whether an area of space with zero mass would affect the vacuum, particularly in the context of vast voids between galaxies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between mass, space-time, and vacuum, with no consensus reached on how these concepts interact in the scenarios presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of the rubber sheet analogy and the need for clearer definitions regarding flat space and vacuum, but these aspects remain unresolved.

Blayde Keel
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In general relativity what happens when two masses approaching zero, are separated by a distance approaching infinity? Is there a condition in general relativity where a lack of mass can warp space-time up instead of a massive object putting a dent in it? I think I am asking what happens to GR in conditions opposite to those of a black hole.
I can see things better if I know what happens when values --> infinity vs values --> zero.
 
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Blayde Keel said:
In general relativity what happens when two masses approaching zero, are separated by a distance approaching infinity? Is there a condition in general relativity where a lack of mass can warp space-time up instead of a massive object putting a dent in it? I think I am asking what happens to GR in conditions opposite to those of a black hole.
I can see things better if I know what happens when values --> infinity vs values --> zero.

As the masses approach zero, the spacetime becomes flatter, gravitational effects become smaller, and things start to look more and more like empty space with no gravitating bodies anywhere.

Your mention of "a massive object putting a dent in [space-time]" suggests that you are thinking in terms of the very common picture showing a heavy object sitting on a sheet of elastic material, something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spacetime_curvature.png

Try to put that picture out of your mind, as it is very misleading. If you search this forum for "rubber sheet" you'll find some discussion about why it is so misleading.
 
Thank you and I will look up the problems involved in the "rubber sheet" view of space-time.
 
I looked at the discussions about the "rubber sheet." I need to get another concept right. GR talks about flat space, quantum physics talks about the vacuum; both would be low mass but they are not the same thing, right?
 
Let me rephrase my last question, of course they are not the same, the whole universe operates in a vacuum; what I meant to ask was; would an area of space with mass --> zero affect the vacuum? In the great voids between the galaxies is the vacuum affected by the absence of matter?
 

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