Is Adding Even Numbers to Fractions Enough to Prove Countable Infinity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether the set of rational numbers of the form q = a/b, where a is an even integer and b is an odd integer, can be proven to be countably infinite. Participants explore various approaches to demonstrate this property, including references to established proofs of countability for the set of rational numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that adding an even number x/x to the fraction q = a/b maintains the conditions of a being even and b being odd, suggesting this might help prove countability.
  • Another participant suggests starting with the proof that the set of all rational numbers, Q, is countably infinite, implying that any subset, including the one in question, would also be countably infinite.
  • A method called the "swan-walk" is introduced as a way to iterate through all fractions in a countable manner, which is presented as a potential proof of countability for Q.
  • There is a concern expressed about whether the "swan-walk" method applies to the specific case of a needing to be even and b needing to be odd.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to demonstrate that the set is infinite by finding an infinite number of distinct elements.
  • A clarification is made that since b can be 1 (an odd integer), the set of all even integers is a subset of the rational numbers being discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the "swan-walk" method to the specific case of even a and odd b. There is also a lack of consensus on how to demonstrate the infinitude of the set in question, with some suggesting it is straightforward while others seek further clarification.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the sufficiency of the proposed methods for proving countability or infinitude, and there are unresolved questions regarding the specific conditions of the integers involved.

JProgrammer
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I am trying to prove how this set is countably infinite:

q∈Q:q=a/b where a is even and b is odd

a needs to be even and b needs to be odd, so I thought this would prove that it would be countably infinite:

q = a/b + x/x, where x is any even number.

a always needs to be even and b always needs to be odd, so if they have the value of x added to them with x being any even number, they would always be positive or negative.

My question is: is this enough to prove that this set is countably infinite? If not, what do I need to do?
 
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JProgrammer said:
I am trying to prove how this set is countably infinite:

q∈Q:q=a/b where a is even and b is odd

a needs to be even and b needs to be odd, so I thought this would prove that it would be countably infinite:

q = a/b + x/x, where x is any even number.

a always needs to be even and b always needs to be odd, so if they have the value of x added to them with x being any even number, they would always be positive or negative.

My question is: is this enough to prove that this set is countably infinite? If not, what do I need to do?

Hey JProgrammer! ;)

How about proving that $\mathbb Q$ is countably infinite to begin with?
So any subset would be countably infinite as well.

Have you heard of the "swan-walk"?
That is, we run through all fractions in the following order:
$$\frac 11, \frac 21, \frac 12, \frac 13, \frac 22, \frac 31, \frac 41, \frac 32, \frac 23, \frac 14, \frac 15, ...$$
This is the swan walk. Its meaning will be apparent if we visualize it in X-Y coordinates.
It shows that we can iterate through all fractions in a countable fashion.
Put otherwise, we have a bijective function $\mathbb Z \to \mathbb Q$, proving that $\mathbb Q$ is countable... (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
Hey JProgrammer! ;)

How about proving that $\mathbb Q$ is countably infinite to begin with?
So any subset would be countably infinite as well.

Have you heard of the "swan-walk"?
That is, we run through all fractions in the following order:
$$\frac 11, \frac 21, \frac 12, \frac 13, \frac 22, \frac 31, \frac 41, \frac 32, \frac 23, \frac 14, \frac 15, ...$$
This is the swan walk. Its meaning will be apparent if we visualize it in X-Y coordinates.
It shows that we can iterate through all fractions in a countable fashion.
Put otherwise, we have a bijective function $\mathbb Z \to \mathbb Q$, proving that $\mathbb Q$ is countable... (Thinking)

Thanks for your reply.

I have heard of this before, but I wasn't sure if it would work for this problem because a needs to be even and b needs to be odd. This would work for this problem?

Since this set has been proven to be countable, it needs to be proven to be infinite. How would I prove that?
 
I like Serena said:
How about proving that $\mathbb Q$ is countably infinite to begin with?
So any subset would be countably infinite as well.
Well, this is an overstatement. (Smile)

JProgrammer said:
Since this set has been proven to be countable, it needs to be proven to be infinite. How would I prove that?
You need to find infinite number of different elements. This is not hard.
 
"b odd" includes b= 1 so the set of all even integers is a subset.
 

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