Is Filming Free Electron Motion in Superfluid Helium Possible?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of filming the motion of free electrons in superfluid helium, as reported by researchers at Brown University. Participants explore the implications of this observation on quantum mechanics concepts, particularly regarding the detection of electrons and the nature of the observed phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Mr Beh questions whether the ability to film the motion of free electrons indicates that they can be detected immediately, and how this might challenge quantum mechanics concepts.
  • Marlon clarifies that what is detected is not the electron itself, but rather the result of its interaction with the medium, such as emitted electromagnetic radiation.
  • Zz emphasizes that the visibility of the electrons is due to bubbles forming around them in the superfluid, not direct observation of the electrons.
  • Marlon further notes that there is no violation of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP) since the electron's trajectory is not being observed directly.
  • DaTario adds that the size of the bubbles is significantly larger than classical estimates for the electron's radius, implying a large uncertainty in trajectory determination.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the observation for quantum mechanics, particularly regarding detection and trajectory. There is no consensus on whether this detection challenges established quantum concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on the interpretation of what is being observed (the electron vs. the bubbles) and the implications for quantum mechanics, but do not resolve these interpretations.

Proof.Beh
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when I studied the Journal of Low Temperature Physics (number of 28 April), confronted an important case: the researchists of Brown University could film a track of free electron's motion into the superfluid helium. The film is available by this link http://physics.brown.edu/physics/researchpages/cme/bubble/Movie.mpg
Somethings tell me that it means that in fact a free electron has detected immediately. Is it correct really? Or this new detection is effective to how much in rejection of QM concepts?

Thanks.
Mr Beh
 
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Proof.Beh said:
when I studied the Journal of Low Temperature Physics (number of 28 April), confronted an important case: the researchists of Brown University could film a track of free electron's motion into the superfluid helium. The film is available by this link http://physics.brown.edu/physics/researchpages/cme/bubble/Movie.mpg
Somethings tell me that it means that in fact a free electron has detected immediately. Is it correct really? Or this new detection is effective to how much in rejection of QM concepts?

Thanks.
Mr Beh

What you detect is not the electron itself but the result of its interaction (emitted EM-radiation for example) with the medium through which it passes.

marlon
 
Proof.Beh said:
when I studied the Journal of Low Temperature Physics (number of 28 April), confronted an important case: the researchists of Brown University could film a track of free electron's motion into the superfluid helium. The film is available by this link http://physics.brown.edu/physics/researchpages/cme/bubble/Movie.mpg
Somethings tell me that it means that in fact a free electron has detected immediately. Is it correct really? Or this new detection is effective to how much in rejection of QM concepts?

Thanks.
Mr Beh
Read it carefully! These are bubbles that form around each single electron in the supercold liquid. That is why your eye could see it. You are not observing the electron itself!

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
Read it carefully! These are bubbles that form around each single electron in the supercold liquid. That is why your eye could see it. You are not observing the electron itself!

Zz.

I had seen it carefully the ... man and had observed that. But because of this possibility, I asked the questions about the detecting of a single electron only. reffer to https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1380455&postcount=15 to see my belief about this case there.

Thanks.
Mr Beh
 
Proof.Beh said:
I had seen it carefully the ... man and had observed that.
Well, then you should know there is no violation of the HUP because you are not looking at the electron's trajectory.

marlon
 
I would like to add that the size of these bubbles are tipically several times greater than the classical estimates for the electron's radius. So the uncertainty in trajectory determination is great.

Best wishes

DaTario