Is Intelligent Life Out There in the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of intelligent life in the universe, exploring various perspectives on whether life beyond Earth is common or rare. Participants engage with concepts from astrobiology, the implications of the vastness of space, and the potential for communication with extraterrestrial civilizations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert a strong belief in the existence of intelligent life elsewhere, citing the vastness of the universe and the diversity of life on Earth as indicators of potential extraterrestrial life.
  • Others express skepticism about the prevalence of intelligent life, suggesting that while life may exist, it is likely to be simple and not advanced, similar to the majority of life forms on Earth.
  • A participant highlights the distinction between the existence of life and the possibility of communication or visitation, arguing that intelligent life may be too far away for meaningful interaction.
  • There are discussions about the implications of Drake's equation, with some suggesting that including all galaxies increases the likelihood of intelligent life existing.
  • Concerns are raised about the unique conditions that led to human evolution on Earth, suggesting that similar conditions may not be replicated elsewhere.
  • Some participants propose that the chances of encountering intelligent life diminish despite the increasing likelihood of its existence due to vast distances and technological limitations.
  • Speculative ideas are presented, such as the existence of life forms on a microscopic scale or in unconventional environments, challenging traditional definitions of life.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of intelligent life in the universe. While some strongly believe in its existence, others remain skeptical, leading to multiple competing views throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the nature of life, the conditions required for its emergence, and the implications of vast cosmic distances. There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions of life and intelligence, as well as the limitations of current scientific understanding.

  • #31
Also, since I'm nitpicking the definitions, we also have plenty of anecdotal evidence of visiting ETs, but we have no scientific evidence to support this. We do have some scientific evidence to support claims that unidentified objects are in our skies at times.
 
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  • #32
Ivan Seeking said:
Also, since I'm nitpicking the definitions, we also have plenty of anecdotal evidence of visiting ETs, but we have no scientific evidence to support this. We do have some scientific evidence to support claims that unidentified objects are in our skies at times.

Visiting ETs or super secret government projects like stuff along the lines of the Philadelphia Experiment? Just because there are UFOs doesn't mean it is intelligent life visiting Earth.



Definitely agreeable that there is no scientific evidence to support life elsewhere, and might never be. But from a probabilistic standpoint, I believe that the odds are in favour. Now of course this depends on what you feel are fair numbers for the Drake equation, but you'd have to make them pretty unbelieveably low to come up with no other life at all.

The drake equation is mere speculation at best. As Michael Chriton pefectly put it "The Drake equation cannot be tested and therefore SETI is not science. SETI is unquestionably a religion,". I read the wiki article on the Drake equation, and the criticisms leveled against it expose the enormous flaws of it. Also reading the wiki article for the Drake equation it linked to another article on the "Rare Earth Hypothesis" which was interesting. According to the rare Earth hypothesis the number of other planets that exists that have intelligent life could be as low as 0 or 1. Once again it is more speculation, but a constrasting way of thinking.


Actually, there was evidence for life on Mars from the Viking missions, but the consensus was that it was a chemical reaction unrelated to biology. However, there still are scientists who feel that life was found in the seventies.

Also, there is still debate about the Mars rock.

So, although most feel that there are other explanations, we do have two pieces of evidence for life on Mars.


Okay so we found some small microbe on Mars. That is life, but not intelligent life.
 
  • #33
you have to ask what makes life intelligent, if it's the ability to adapt than an ameba is just a few jumps from you considering the thought of (big bang for example) an understood timeline of universe.
 
  • #34
I don't see how you could call SETI a religion, seeing as all they are doing is testing a hypothesis. It's like calling looking for life at the bottom of the ocean a religion isn't it? I don't get it.

But anyways, I don't think that the Drake equation was ever meant to be tested, for it can never give provable results! The drake equation is just an equation, and can enter in your own parameters for what you think are reasonable estimates for the parameters, and get a theoretical number out of it. Anyone that would say that "Aha! There must be life out there because the Drake equation told me so!" doesn't get it... in my mind. But I think that saying that "The drake equation shows us that we would have to select extremely low probabilities for the parameters of the drake equation to come up with no life at all" is a reasonable and accurate assertion and tells us something about the probability of intelligent life elsewhere.
 
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  • #35
gravenewworld said:
Visiting ETs or super secret government projects like stuff along the lines of the Philadelphia Experiment? Just because there are UFOs doesn't mean it is intelligent life visiting Earth.

Well, first of all, the notion of visiting ETs is a separate issue from secret government projects, of which there are many, so I'm not sure why you lump the two into one sentence, but as I have already shown above, to say that ET could not be visiting is a faith statement. The opinion is as valid as any other, but it is still a faith statement.

Next, I never said that any UFOs are crafts flown by ET. I said there is evidence for UFOs. In fact, I was making the dinstinction between anecdotal evidence, which is often considered legal evidence, and scientific evidence, which requires a measurement. And unlike the Phili experiment story, we certainly have reams of anecdotal evidence of ET encouters and of crafts that are seemingly not of this world. But the hard data - the scientific evidence - only tells us that there seems to be things called UFOs - meaning unidentified objects.

The word evidence has been used as if there is only one form of evidence. Also, the statement that there is no evidence for life on Mars confuses the idea of evidence, with that of proof. Or, it assumes that weak evidence is the same as no evidence.

Okay so we found some small microbe on Mars. That is life, but not intelligent life.

I didn't say that it was intelligent life. I was responding to this:
Definitely agreeable that there is no scientific evidence to support life elsewhere, and might never be.
 
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  • #36
You might find this interesting; from the UFO Napster in S&D.

INFLATION-THEORY IMPLICATIONS FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL VISITATION
J. Deardorff, B. Haisch, B. Maccabee and H.E. Puthoff
Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, Vol 58, pp. 43-50, 2005.
http://www.ufoskeptic.org/JBIS.pdf
 
  • #37
gravenewworld said:
the claim that there definitely has to be intelligent life out there is mere speculation, not scientific fact--yet.
You state the obvious. I doubt anyone here sees this as anything other than speculation.
 
  • #38
DaveC426913 said:
You state the obvious. I doubt anyone here sees this as anything other than speculation.

I think it's logical to say life on this planet is not unique, but it's still specualtion.:smile:
 

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