Is is just me, or is FTL dead in SF?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the perceived decline of faster-than-light (FTL) travel in contemporary science fiction (SF) literature. Participants explore various works of SF that incorporate FTL, contrasting them with narratives that focus on more realistic or grounded approaches to space travel. The conversation touches on themes of relativity, technological plausibility, and the evolution of reader expectations in the genre.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note a trend in recent SF, such as works by Alistair Reynolds, that avoids FTL travel while still engaging with interstellar themes.
  • Others provide examples of recent SF that includes FTL, such as "Collapsing Empire" by John Scalzi and "Pandora's Star" by Peter F. Hamilton, highlighting how FTL is integral to their plots.
  • Several participants mention that FTL plays a minor role in other works, such as "A Long Way to a Small Angry Planet" by Becky Chambers, which focuses more on character interactions than on the mechanics of space travel.
  • One participant expresses a personal preference for older SF that features detailed timelines and elaborate world-building, contrasting it with newer trends.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of FTL on causality and time travel, with some suggesting that authors may avoid FTL due to the complexities it introduces.
  • There is a discussion about the impact of scientific advancements on the genre, with some participants arguing that as readers become more educated about science, the likelihood of FTL being accepted in narratives decreases.
  • One participant mentions that the potential for future scientific discoveries to invalidate FTL concepts may deter authors from including them in their works.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of opinions on the relevance and future of FTL in SF. While some believe that FTL is still a viable and exciting element in contemporary stories, others argue that its prevalence is declining in favor of more scientifically grounded narratives. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall trend and its implications for the genre.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the conversation is influenced by personal preferences and experiences with SF literature. There are references to specific authors and works, but no consensus is reached on the future of FTL in the genre or its acceptance among readers.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in the evolution of science fiction, particularly those exploring themes of space travel, relativity, and the impact of scientific understanding on literature.

  • #31
Sorry it’s House of Suns, not stars and is as good a one-off novel as Pushing Ice
 
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  • #32
BWV said:
Aside from Alistair Reynolds’ work, Pandora’s Star is the best space opera of this century

The bulk of Weber's "Honorverse" is mostly writ post millenium, and is hardly short on space opera.

Ditto, Drake's Lt.Leary series which may be a bit formulaic but works well for transit perusal (Hammer's Slammers on the other hand gives old Mack Bolan (The Executioner) a run for the money)

From the Wikipedia article, Pandora's Star seems to have some pretty far out there premises.
 
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  • #33
hmmm27 said:
The bulk of Weber's "Honorverse" is mostly writ post millenium, and is hardly short on space opera.

Ditto, Drake's Lt.Leary series which may be a bit formulaic but works well for transit perusal (Hammer's Slammers on the other hand gives old Mack Bolan (The Executioner) a run for the money)

From the Wikipedia article, Pandora's Star seems to have some pretty far out there premises.

The Honorverse looks to be Horatio Hornblower with FTL drives, so how is anything in Pandoras star ‘far out’?
 
  • #34
A post was deleted at the request of the poster, also replies to the deleted post were also deleted.
 
  • #35
anorlunda said:
A post was deleted at the request of the poster, also replies to the deleted post were also deleted.
Thankyou.
BWV said:
The Honorverse looks to be Horatio Hornblower with FTL drives, so how is anything in Pandoras star ‘far out’?
Never read Horatio Hornblower, nor Pandora's Star... but some of the premises in the WP entry for PS look a bit far-fetched.

I'd be more specific (perhaps remembering the <spoiler> tags), but people keep recommending the author, and I wouldn't want to have it spoiled for myself (either).
 
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  • #36
My point is that any sort of Space Opera interstellar travel is far-fetched. No spoiler-Hamilton's books center around humans mastering wormholes. Its no more or less far-fetched than any other form of FTL
 
  • #37
hmmm27 said:
Never read Horatio Hornblower, nor Pandora's Star... but some of the premises in the WP entry for PS look a bit far-fetched

Having read your pre-deleted comment I’ll reiterate that what you’re calling “far fetched premises” are the mysteries that drive the plot. In-universe people have trouble understanding and figuring out what’s going on. That’s why the story is good, it doesn’t really matter what the premise is it’s how the characters react to it that is important.
 
  • #38
Honor Harrington is fun, but that assessment depends on your tolerance for thinly disguised military history. The universe's physics is designed so that broadside combat makes sense, although at least ships form the wall of battle, rather than line of battle. I did find the bad(ish) guys being ruled from Nouveau Paris by Rob S. Pierre, Chairman of the Committee for Public Safety to be a bit heavy handed.

I enjoyed Hamilton's books. His standalone Fallen Dragon is probably my favourite.
 
  • #39
Not really FTL stuff, but I like the premise of the Dune series mode of interstellar and intergalatic travel. Just ingest enough drugs(melange) and you will be able to "bend" space to travel anywhere safely. That idea overcomes many technical issues that bug scfi FTL travel, although it raises a similar amount of other questions. No need to spend a lot of time on dodgy tech explanations on how it works getting around limitations on FTL travel.
Can't say I like the idea of the "ingester" being "transformed" into something else though.
 
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  • #40
Space Fantasy does not get enough respect - Dune is a great story
 
  • #41
BWV said:
But read Revelation Space

Absolutely agree that the Revelation Space series is read-worthy, sci-fi, though in the context of this thread, the books lack FTL. Lighthuggers race up to relativistic speeds - with all the complexities of time dilation - to carry freight and passengers between solar systems.

I've reviewed most of Reynolds work lower on amazon.com since those brilliant books burst onto the scene, and especially the Poseidon's Children series (again, no FTL in these stories, but that did not really contribute to the flaws). Also felt that The Prefect Dreyfus Emergencies lacked that Glitter Band zing. Revenger was a cracker, but the second in the series, Shadow Captain wasn't nearly as good. Neither of those had FTL, either, Reynold's having noted that he prefers to use physics as we know it unless it just doesn't work for the plot.

Back on topic, I'm almost through Neal Asher's latest, The Warship, which has both FTL ships and comms, and it's interesting that I'm having tachyonic antitelephone tickles as read it. Asher glosses over that pretty well, but I've also recently read Michael Wallace's Blackbeard Superbox, where small alien ships go FTL in-system as part of their offensive capability, and light delay is really badly handled. The tachyonic antitelephone was ringing loud chapter by chapter!
 
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  • #42
hmmm27 said:
Yeah, but I save at least 2-3 HVAC dollars per year from the half a foot of cellulose covering a couple of the walls.:smile:

Cheaper to just wear a tin-foil suit, surely? Don't they provide insulation and RF protection :-p
 
  • #43
Michael Price said:
I hadn't seen that quote from Asimov about paying the bills, but I can't believe that is the whole truth - he must have enjoyed the fiction writing to some extent.. Looking back on it now, I am not sure whether Asimov's fiction or non-fiction had the greater impact on me. Some of his fiction I still re-read for pleasure, such as End of Eternity and The Gods Themselves (middle section only).

It is the lack of computers, not FTL, that make his Foundation series unreadable nowadays - and his later stuff extending the Foundation series and merging with the Robots was a bit strained, I thought.

Oddly enough I've had no such problems with the Foundation Trilogy, which I did read from start to finish recently - and enjoyed as well (with minor quibbles). This, however, could be a case of retreating into a kind of 1940s mindset when reading it. Possibly this placing-oneself-in-the-time-of-the-book's-creation reading strategy has worked with other period-piece SF - still more venerable works like The Time Machine, and Out of the Silent Planet, for instance? On the other hand I have before me a brand new hardback edition of Dune. It's a brick of a book I've not revisited since the early 1970s, and to be honest the prospect fills me with trepidation.

The later Foundation spin-offs I did find pretty much unreadable, for the most part. This was due to far too much dialogue at the expense of action/description. On occasion it was like ploughing through a script intended for a radio play, and I'm afraid much of Heinlein has the same effect on me. Re-reading Asimov's The End of Eternity after a gap of several decades was a richly rewarding experience, however.

As for FTL space travel, it's likely that long-running TV/film franchises like Star Trek and Star Wars have covered many of its bases, or else degraded them, depending on one's point of view. It's possible too that all the astounding discoveries our robotic probes have made about our solar system during the intervening years have pushed FTL travel into the shade, at least for now. That's how things look from this patch of our local heavens, anyway :)
 
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  • #44
Dr Wu said:
Oddly enough I've had no such problems with the Foundation Trilogy, which I did read from start to finish recently - and enjoyed as well (with minor quibbles). This, however, could be a case of retreating into a kind of 1940s mindset when reading it. Possibly this placing-oneself-in-the-time-of-the-book's-creation reading strategy has worked with other period-piece SF - still more venerable works like The Time Machine, and Out of the Silent Planet, for instance? On the other hand I have before me a brand new hardback edition of Dune. It's a brick of a book I've not revisited since the early 1970s, and to be honest the prospect fills me with trepidation.

The later Foundation spin-offs I did find pretty much unreadable, for the most part. This was due to far too much dialogue at the expense of action/description. On occasion it was like ploughing through a script intended for a radio play, and I'm afraid much of Heinlein has the same effect on me. Re-reading Asimov's The End of Eternity after a gap of several decades was a richly rewarding experience, however.

As for FTL space travel, it's likely that long-running TV/film franchises like Star Trek and Star Wars have covered many of its bases, or else degraded them, depending on one's point of view. It's possible too that all the astounding discoveries our robotic probes have made about our solar system during the intervening years have pushed FTL travel into the shade, at least for now. That's how things look from this patch of our local heavens, anyway :)
I also tried Dune and swiftly gave up. (Enjoyed the film, though.) I agree, you have to put yourself into the mindset of the era - I too enjoyed rereading The Time Machine (several times). Perhaps I'll give the original Foundation Trilogy another go.

Agree 100% about End of Eternity - still an outstanding work.
 
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  • #45
Another Life, the Netflix show, features FTL somewhat prominently, but I would strongly suggest avoiding it if you care about physics or non-braindead characters.
 
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  • #46
Lord Crc said:
Another Life, the Netflix show, features FTL somewhat prominently, but I would strongly suggest avoiding it if you care about physics or non-braindead characters.
Bullied into watching it, awful dialogue, hammy acting, derivative plot (we played spot that derivative and got up to 4 or 5 derivations) but FTL travel as per the OP request.
Bailed after episode 4 or 5 at my request with no objections.
Rubbish.
 
  • #47
Lord Crc said:
Another Life, the Netflix show, features FTL somewhat prominently, but I would strongly suggest avoiding it if you care about physics or non-braindead characters.

Entirely concur with @Lord Crc's assessment. I missed this post and started watching Another Life recently. It is beyond nonsensical - a light years wide dark matter clump that they can't see through? Sure, why not, that's what the term means, right? No? Dang, oh well, we need it for the plot, keep it in. - but in terms of FTL, not only do they have FTL travel, they have FTL comms, including real-time holographic calls to their mobiles!

FTL is not dead in SF, but in Another Life, it should be!
 
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