Is it correct to use a 3-tuple for transitivity in a relation?

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The discussion centers on the correct use of a 3-tuple for defining transitivity in a relation. The participants clarify that transitivity is a property of the relation R, not an operation on the elements x, y, and z. The original definition provided, using the universal quantifier for all elements in set B, is confirmed to be equivalent to using a 3-tuple in B³. However, it is emphasized that this approach does not establish the existence of any specific element y.

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  • Familiarity with universal and existential quantifiers
  • Knowledge of set notation and operations
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Mathematicians, computer scientists, and students studying set theory and mathematical logic will benefit from this discussion, particularly those interested in the formal properties of relations.

EdgeOfWorld
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correct use of "3-tuple"?

(here I use "A" for the universal quantifier, "E" for the existential quantifier, and "e" to indicate elementhood)

My present definition for Transitivity of a relation:
R is a transitive relation on the set B

AxeB AyeB AzeB [((x,y)eR & (y,z)eR)-->(x,z)eR]

which I shorten to:
Ax,y,zeB[((x,y)eR & (y,z)eR)-->(x,z)eR]


But for a certain proof I need Ey rather than Ay, so I'm wondering if I can use a 3-tuple, (x,y,z), in the following way:

A(x,y,z)eB[((x,y)eR & (y,z)eR)-->(x,z)eR]

or would that mean I'd have to be using B^3??
 
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Not sure what you're asking, but transitivity is a property of R, not an operation on the x,y, and z. Thus you can't use this definition to establish the existence of y, or for that matter, x, z, or R itself.

A 3-tuple would be over [tex]B^3[/tex]
 
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Hello, EdgeOfWorld (famous last words, there!), yes, I think your original statement,

[tex](\forall x,y,z \in B) [(((x,y)\in R) \& ((y,z) \in R)) \Rightarrow ((x,z) \in R)],[/tex]

is equivalent to

[tex](\forall(x,y,z)\in B^3)[(((x,y)\in R) \& ((y,z)\in R))\Rightarrow ((x,z)\in R)].[/tex]

I don't see how this relates to the existence of y, but maybe that's because you haven't told us exactly how you're going to use it.
 

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