Is it possible to create macroscopic Casimir effect?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the possibility of creating a macroscopic Casimir effect, which is traditionally observed at the microscopic scale between parallel conducting plates. Participants explore the implications of vacuum energy, the conditions necessary for measuring the effect, and the feasibility of scaling it up to larger distances.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the Casimir effect results in an attractive or repulsive force due to differences in electromagnetic field fluctuations between two parallel plates.
  • There is a suggestion that if vacuum energy is considered zero-point energy, the energy between the plates must be negative, although this is debated.
  • One participant argues that while the Casimir effect can theoretically occur at any scale, it becomes negligible for distances greater than a few nanometers.
  • Another participant questions whether the Casimir force could be the same on a macroscopic scale and proposes controlling the electromagnetic field as a potential method.
  • A mathematical expression for the force between the plates is provided, indicating that while the effect can be calculated for larger areas, the force diminishes significantly with increased distance.
  • There is a correction regarding the dependence of the force on distance and area, with a participant clarifying the relationship between these variables.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of achieving a measurable Casimir effect on a macroscopic scale, with some asserting it is negligible at larger distances while others explore the potential for control over the effect.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved assumptions regarding the scaling of the Casimir effect and the implications of vacuum energy definitions. There is also a noted dependence on the specific parameters used in calculations.

Bawelna
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Hello.
I read a lot about Casimir Effect. It creates attractive (or repulsive)force between two metal, parallel, electrically neutral, conducting plates. It causes that between plates, it is less electromagnetic field fluctuation wavelength than outside (vacuum). Logic tells me that if vacuum energy is zero-point energy that energy between casimir plates must be NEGATIVE! I also read that casimir effect is measurable if the gap between plates is less than 7-5 nanometers. Is it possible to operate casimir effect on macroscopic scale, say a few centimeters, meter?
 
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Bawelna said:
Logic tells me that if vacuum energy is zero-point energy that energy between casimir plates must be NEGATIVE!
The energy scale is arbitrary if we leave out gravity. It is convenient to set the energy density of the vacuum to zero, but it is not necessary. If you do it, you get negative energy densities between the plates.
Bawelna said:
s it possible to operate casimir effect on macroscopic scale, say a few centimeters, meter?
You have it at any scale, but for a distance of more than a few nanometers it is completely negligible.
 
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Is it possible that the Casimir force on a macroscopic scale was the same as in the microscopic scale? Maybe by controlling electromagnetic field?
 
You try to make categories that do not exist. For parallel plates at distance d and area A, the force is$$F=\frac{\pi^2 \hbar c}{240} \frac{A}{d^4}$$
Plug in A = 1 mm2 and d = 5 nm and you get 2 N - a measurable force. Plug in A = 1 m2 and d = 10 cm, and you get 1.3*10-23 N - completely negligible. It is exactly the same effect described by the same formula, but on larger scales it is negligible.
 
Last edited:
Hey @mfb, shouldn't the distance be to the 4th power, not the area?
 
Oops, typo. LaTeX tried to put the whole fraction to the 4th power.
 
Bad LaTex! Bad, naughty LaTeX!

If it helps, remember the Casimir force is a pressure. F needs to be proportional to A. (And in natural units, pressure has units of r-4, so that gives you your d dependence)
 

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