News Is Pelosi's Posse Funded by Taxpayer Dollars?

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AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the perceived disparity between the lavish lifestyle of political elites, such as Nancy Pelosi's group at the DNC Convention, and the struggles of grassroots delegates who are left with minimal food options. Participants express concern over whether taxpayer dollars fund these elite gatherings and question the accountability of politicians who benefit from lobbyist donations. A controversial incident involving police arresting an ABC producer while he attempted to report on Pelosi's group raises further questions about press freedom and the treatment of journalists. The conversation touches on broader themes of political hypocrisy and the influence of money in politics, suggesting that both liberal and conservative elites exploit their positions. The overall sentiment reflects frustration with the political system and the disconnect between elected officials and their constituents.
  • #51
Well, it has started - charges of "probable cause to commit a riot" - let's see if the OP has any sympathy for people at the RNC...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080830/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cvn_convention_protest;_ylt=AouvJBFMERLLPd2nqRqclTms0NUE
 
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  • #52
turbo-1 said:
Well, it has started - charges of "probable cause to commit a riot" - let's see if the OP has any sympathy for people at the RNC...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080830/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cvn_convention_protest;_ylt=AouvJBFMERLLPd2nqRqclTms0NUE
What are they protesting?
 
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  • #53
They weren't protesting anything at the time. Apparently, they were planning marches, etc, and were subjected to pre-emptive arrests.
 
  • #54
turbo-1 said:
They weren't protesting anything at the time. Apparently, they were planning marches, etc, and were subjected to pre-emptive arrests.
Correction, what were they planning to protest, anyone know? The article doesn't say.
 
  • #55
mheslep said:
And he attended an expensive prep school followed by Columbia and Harvard.

WarPhalange said:
He went to a prep school that he got scholarships for, no less.
You didn't have to tell mheslep that. He knows it, but decided not to mention it this time. Well, that argument failed miserably, the last time round when he did mention it: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1798557#post1798557

mheslep said:
And attended an http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec04/obama_7-27.html" which has a current tuition of $16k/yr.

I'm disappointed.
 
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  • #56
TheStatutoryApe said:
Considering that a person could live comfortably for the rest of their life with only a couple million dollars in the bank and that Obama is worth nearly 80 million and madeover four million last year alone I would like to see him giving more than 5.7% of that income to those people he is fighting so hard for.

Cyrus said:
I thought he's worth a few million.

As of the end of 2007, Obama was worth $1.3 million.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/moneymag/0712/gallery.candidates.moneymag/5.html

Other people (same link):

Edwards, $55 million
Clinton, $35 million

Romney, $200 million
Giuliani, $52 million
McCain, $40 million

For 2006 numbers (Obama, $800,000; McCain, $36 million), see: http://fortune535.sunlightprojects.org/
 
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  • #57
Gokul43201 said:
You didn't have to tell mheslep that. He knows it, but decided not to mention it this time.
Because my point in this context was that the scholarship doesn't matter with respect to privilege, as I stated:
mheslep said:
No, I'm saying he didn't grow up 'poor'. He didn't drive BMWs to class but you don't attend 4 and 5 figure prep schools and get to claim you grew up without privilege, scholarship or no.
Bold added here.
 
  • #58
Gokul43201 said:
As of the end of 2007, Obama was worth $1.3 million.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/moneymag/0712/gallery.candidates.moneymag/5.html

Other people (same link):

Edwards, $55 million
Clinton, $35 million

Romney, $200 million
Giuliani, $52 million
McCain, $40 million

For 2006 numbers (Obama, $800,000; McCain, $36 million), see: http://fortune535.sunlightprojects.org/

Yes. My mistake. I still haven't looked that deeply into Obama and my mistake is showing me he's a lot better than I was even thinking to begin with. Clinton is the one I really don't like.
 
  • #59
mheslep said:
Because my point in this context was that the scholarship doesn't matter with respect to privilege, as I stated:
Then my point would be that privilege doesn't matter with respect to poor.

I go to grad school at a university that has five figure tuition, but being a grad student it is covered for me. My income (graduate stipend) is less than a third of the US median income and probably about a fifth of the incomes of the families that send their kids to school here. I own a 16-yr old car, a $30 bicycle, a $25 cell phone, and last month I shopped for clothes for the first time in 3 years. I have no savings.

Just because I go to school here doesn't mean I can share the extravagant lifestyle of the kids that live down the street from me. But I do have access to high-speed internet, a computer paid for by my University Fellowship and get to travel about once a year to give a conference talk.

I know what it is like to be poor and "privileged" (...if that's even the right word. My GRE subject score is nearly twice that of some American students in my department. I like to think I earned my Fellowship.)
 
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  • #60
Cyrus said:
I will concede Pelosi as being an elite, she's very wealthy and came from a family of power. But when the OP made the statement 'liberal elite' he lumped in EVERYONE that's democrat must be elite and wealthy. That's a nonsense statement and you know it.
Untrue. I said that the liberal elite are gathering with Nancy Pelosi. I believe the invitation was limited to a group called The Pelosi 100. That's hardly EVERYONE that's Democrat.

Pay attention.



Cyrus said:
Also, could you please justify your comments about 'liberal elites'

Specifically, I'd like to know how a black guy that grew up poor and a VP that has a net worth of under $400k qualifies as 'ELITE'.
Let me clarify my intended connotation of liberal elite. (and don't give me that poor tripe about Barack Obama)

Liberal elite:
That is a liberal in a paid governmental position that comes with perks unavailable to those governed, or a liberal who contributes so much money to the cause that his/her wishes are administered by those to which the contributions are made. One doesn't have to be rich...just powerful enough by virtue of position or pocketbook to demand that additional monies be spent on their personal interests...such as free meals, free lavish surroundings, free transportation, franking privileges, free travel expenses, free whatever...the only thing bad about this is that nothing is really free; it's just paid for by somebody else. The elite liberals never really pay. The ones that contribute get more than their money's worth back in favors (that somehow translate into wealth or power). The ones that are in paid positions have their entire livelihood financed for them.


Now, I'd like you to explain to me how a GW Bush, from a long line of oil millionaires, and John McCain, the son of a long line of rear admirals, is 'one of you common folk'...

You must have some very very impressive ways of rationalizing in your head non-truths. Because clearly, what you stated was nonsense. You sure the Repubs haven't been feeding you any kool-aid?
You display here the uncanny liberal tendency to read something extra into what is said. This thread was started on the subject of Nancy Pelosi's Posse of liberal elites. I did not posit the non-existence of Republican elites. Certainly, their corral is replete with similar persons. Replace "liberal" with "conservative" in my described intended connotation and you have what is known to me as a Republican elitist. They exist on both sides of the aisle.

You seem to be forwarding the message that it's okay to be bad because the other side does it. What I despise is the fact that gifts are expected by and made to elitists on either side. It has become standard practice in this country to consider one's self above the general public simply because you are a government official or a big contributor to the party's cause. It's the little people that are actually worth their salt and deserve to have their taxes spent on things that benefit the taxed society without favoritism and outright theft of funds given to entertaining and gifting the elite ruling few.

The arrogance and delusions of superiority that are basic to elitists certainly exist without limitation due to political posturing. It is human nature to lean toward being smug, aloof and excessively proud of yourself when you are in a position to control things...and money talks!

The "let them eat cake" syndrome prevails where the ruling few (elite) are quartered.

Look up elite and you should find that its basic meaning relates to the act of choosing. The choicest part, a socially superior group (by choice of those considered superior), a powerful minority group, <a power elite within the government> &c.

It has little to do with wealth, except that by throwing money around one can easily become a member of the elite crowd that actually runs things.

Oh, to be one of the chosen few...in Pelosi's Posse.
 
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  • #61
turbo-1 said:
Well, it has started - charges of "probable cause to commit a riot" - let's see if the OP has any sympathy for people at the RNC...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080830/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cvn_convention_protest;_ylt=AouvJBFMERLLPd2nqRqclTms0NUE
I don't have much verified information regarding that incident. I've heard the protestors were arrested for violence...smashed windows, cut tires, &c. In such cases, the police are certainly justified in cuffing and hauling off protestors. This is not comparable to running a single reporter from in front of a business for "blocking the sidewalk".

Not a Winner...Please Try again!

(How many times have you seen that printed inside a Snicker's wrapper?)
 
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  • #62
You haven't heard about the one a couple days ago, when the RNC Gestapo raided the office of a protest group... and eventually fined them for a fire code violation?

Let's thank them for the valuable fire protection service.
 
  • #63
isly ilwott said:
I don't have much verified information regarding that incident. I've heard the protestors were arrested for violence...smashed windows, cut tires, &c. In such cases, the police are certainly justified in cuffing and hauling off protestors. This is not comparable to running a single reporter from in front of a business for "blocking the sidewalk".

Not a Winner...Please Try again!

(How many times have you seen that printed inside a Snicker's wrapper?)

At the time that link was posted, there had not been a protest, there had not been a march, and there had been no property destruction, including smashed windows or slashed tires. They were pre-emptively arrested for planning marches - please mind the time-stamp on my post and on the link I included. The claim and the charge was that the police had "probable cause to believe that the detainees were conspiring to commit felony riot."

Your conflation of these pre-emptive arrests with arrests during actual protest marches is unfortunate.
 
  • #64
isly ilwott said:
Untrue. I said that the liberal elite are gathering with Nancy Pelozi. I believe the invitation was limited to a group called The Pelozi 100. That's hardly EVERYONE that's Democrat...

It has little to do with wealth, except that by throwing money around one can easily become a member of the elite crowd that actually runs things.

Oh, to be one of the chosen few...in Pelozi's Posse.

I think you have a fundamental understanding of what's going on.

The Pelosi 100 are the big money contributors. They are the ones that are being wooed for more money no doubt. They are in effect paying for their own lavish parties. So what? What public money trail is that?

There are big money cats on both sides of the aisles, and if you want to limit influence that's a big job, because everyone has the right to free speech and those with more money get to talk louder. That's their choice. Your choice is not to listen.
 
  • #65
LowlyPion said:
I think you have a fundamental understanding of what's going on.

The Pelosi 100 are the big money contributors. They are the ones that are being wooed for more money no doubt. They are in effect paying for their own lavish parties. So what? What public money trail is that?

There are big money cats on both sides of the aisles, and if you want to limit influence that's a big job, because everyone has the right to free speech and those with more money get to talk louder. That's their choice. Your choice is not to listen.
It is unfortunate that you or anyone else condones the buying of governmental influence. It is supposed to be one person-one vote. Government services are meant to be fairly distributed, not skewed toward those who pay extra.
 
  • #66
Gokul43201 said:
You haven't heard about the one a couple days ago, when the RNC Gestapo raided the office of a protest group... and eventually fined them for a fire code violation?

Let's thank them for the valuable fire protection service.
Were those cigar chomping, neck choke hold Denver cops outside Pelosi's hotel DNC Gestapo?
 
  • #67
LowlyPion said:
I think you have a fundamental understanding of what's going on.

The Pelosi 100 are the big money contributors. They are the ones that are being wooed for more money no doubt. They are in effect paying for their own lavish parties. So what? What public money trail is that? ..
The 'so what' is its against law, passed by Pelosi's congress just after they took office. Intended to "drain the swamp" per Pelosi, the law bans lobbyists from giving anything of value to lawmakers, like a lavish party, or a private day at he ball park w/ the Colorado Rockies while one attends the D. convention; and it demands fund raising activities by lobbyists be reported. The Pelosi 100 are dancing a nice little two step, claiming to have "drained the swamp" on one beat, and on the next enjoying a loop hole in the law that permits the same old thing if a charity is involved.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0807/5273.html
...Lobbyists can't travel with members, can't eat with them (sitting down), can't give them free tickets to hot events, can't secretly promise them well-paying jobs and can't hold a fundraiser for them without the whole world finding out about it...
 
  • #68
mheslep said:
Were those cigar chomping, neck choke hold Denver cops outside Pelosi's hotel DNC Gestapo?
Of course they were! Haven't you heard?

isly ilwott said:
I wonder if anything could look more like gestapo tactics than the video of the fine officers who choked and arrested the ABC producer trying to get information about some of Pelosi's Posse on a public street...outside of a fine and fancy restuarant.
...
Big Brother is right around the corner.
 
  • #69
THE NATION; The Hard Business of Soft Money
THEY call us the fathers of soft money,'' Bob Farmer says, and he's not preening.

Neither is Bob Mosbacher, the other hangdog dad.

In 1988, Mr. Farmer, the top money man for Michael Dukakis and the Democratic Party, and Mr. Mosbacher, finance chairman for George Bush and the Republicans, were the kings of campaign fund-raising. More than that, they earned a place in political history by starting the first national programs to raise soft money, the large, unrestricted gifts to the two parties by wealthy individuals, corporations and labor unions.

Both of them have lived to feel some regret over their fiscal ingenuity (though not, it must be said, the victories it contributed to). Today, Mr. Farmer says it's high time Washington passed campaign finance reform legislation. ''Obviously, money in politics is totally out of control,'' he says. Mr. Mosbacher agrees that ''it's gotten totally out of hand.''

And it's about to get worse, predicts Jeffrey Birnbaum, author of ''The Money Men'' (Crown Books), a forthcoming book about political fund-raising. ''There will be far more soft money than ever before,'' he says. Experts on campaign finance agree, some estimating that during the 2000 elections the two parties could collect as much as $500 million in soft money contributions. That's up from $262 million four years ago, when there were widespread fund-raising abuses.

Mr. Birnbaum says that the Clinton-Gore money team has taken soft money to a new level. ''At one time in the Democratic Party, it was time to celebrate if they got a $50,000 check,'' he says. ''Now a host of wealthy Democrats are expected to fork over $100,000 or more every year.'' The Republicans, Mr. Birnbaum adds, ''are hungry for victory, having been out of the White House for eight long years.'' More than 50 wealthy Republicans have joined the Regents, which costs them $250,000 apiece.

. . . .
When he learned about the Democrats' program, Mr. Mosbacher says, he worried about being outpaced, so he promptly copied their idea, calling the Republican version Team 100. Mr. Mosbacher says Vice President George Bush didn't like the idea. ''He moaned and groaned,'' Mr. Mosbacher recalls. ''He foresaw it as something that would be perceived as someone getting clout for making a big contribution.'' But he went along with Mr. Mosbacher's argument that the Republicans would be ''left in the lurch'' if they left the soft money field to Mr. Farmer. That year, Mr. Farmer recruited 130 Democratic Trustees, while Mr. Mosbacher drew 267 members to Team 100.
. . . .
Then there is Tom DeLay and the K-street lobbyists!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Street_Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist#Political_importance_on_national_politics
 
  • #70
Originally Posted by mheslep
Were those cigar chomping, neck choke hold Denver cops outside Pelosi's hotel DNC Gestapo?

Subsequently posted by Gokul
Of course they were! Haven't you heard?


Originally Posted by isly ilwott
I wonder if anything could look more like gestapo tactics than the video of the fine officers who choked and arrested the ABC producer trying to get information about some of Pelosi's Posse on a public street...outside of a fine and fancy restuarant.
...
Big Brother is right around the corner.

There was no claim that they were gestapo controlled by any particular group...just a question regarding if anything could look more like it.

Of course the insinuation that they were controlled by the DNC or were being sympathetic to the DNC cause is indeed there. Only you concluded that the claim was made that they were DNC gestapo. I believe I did refer to them as fine officers:wink:.
 
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  • #71
isly ilwott said:
There was no claim that they were gestapo controlled by any particular group...just a question regarding if anything could look more like it.
I quite clearly recall you saying they were controlled or ordered by liberals - if not in that post, I'm sure it was in another one.

And no, I didn't fail Reading Comprehension.

PS: Speaking of Reading Comprehension, I never said in the earlier post, that you claimed they were gestapo controlled by some particular group. I only insinuated it by quoting your post.
 
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  • #72
isly ilwott said:
I wonder if anything could look more like gestapo tactics than the video of the fine officers who choked and arrested the ABC producer trying to get information about some of Pelosi's Posse on a public street...outside of a fine and fancy restuarant. I wonder if the liberal peons know what kind of people actually benefit from their fanatic, kool-aid driven, circus-band-wagon support of their messiah liberal? I mean, they had to be fine cops...their platoon goon was smoking a cigar.
This is the exact quote.
 
  • #73
turbo-1 said:
Well, it has started - charges of "probable cause to commit a riot" - let's see if the OP has any sympathy for people at the RNC...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080830/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cvn_convention_protest;_ylt=AouvJBFMERLLPd2nqRqclTms0NUE
To the OP: You have claimed that these people were arrested after they slashed tires, broke windows, etc, and when I pointed out that these people were arrested pre-emptively on Friday and Saturday, you refused to correct your statement. You seem fixated on the "fact" that the Democrats were responsible for the behavior of the Denver police, and that "Big Brother is right around the corner." Yet apparently, you think that the St.Paul police are somehow justified in arresting people before they commit any real offenses because they have "probable cause" to believe that the suspects might commit some actionable offenses later. That's pretty disturbing, Big Brother.
 
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  • #74
turbo-1 said:
To the OP: You have claimed that these people were arrested after they slashed tires, broke windows, etc, and when I pointed out that these people were arrested pre-emptively on Friday and Saturday, you refused to correct your statement. You seem fixated on the "fact" that the Democrats were responsible for the behavior of the Denver police, and that "Big Brother is right around the corner." Yet apparently, you think that the St.Paul police are somehow justified in arresting people before they commit any real offenses because they have "probable cause" to believe that the suspects might commit some actionable offenses later. That's pretty disturbing, Big Brother.
I'm sorry. I think we are speaking of different groups of people arrested. I wasn't aware of the pre-emptive arrests until just recently. Have you read about or heard anything of what they were planning to do? I heard that they were assembling buckets of urine, nails and various things to throw on the delegates as they approached the convention hall thus making them not want to enter the hall. Have you heard anything similar to that? Have you heard that their plans were discovered in time to keep them from doing such? Can you fathom how similar this is to the case of discovering the plans of terrorists before they are implemented and arresting the terrorists? Do you think the police should have waited until they actually threw the urine on the delegates and then arrest them?

I can imagine the answers to those questions that will come from liberal minds, but please...do write them out for me.
 
  • #75
isly ilwott said:
I heard that they were assembling buckets of urine, nails and various things to throw on the delegates as they approached the convention hall thus making them not want to enter the hall. Have you heard anything similar to that?
Do you have any reputable sources for such claims? That's so far off the wall that if it were true, the cops certainly would have publicized it to justify the pre-emptive arrests.
 
  • #76
turbo-1 said:
Do you have any reputable sources for such claims? That's so far off the wall that if it were true, the cops certainly would have publicized it to justify the pre-emptive arrests.
I agree it is a bit off the wall. But then, what should we expect from such people as planned it? I'm not sure that these agitators would just have soon disrupted the Democratic convention in like manner...they may be what some know as rebels without a cause...being neither liberal nor conservative...just troublemakers looking for a venue.

This should be self expanatory. All one needs do is google "buckets of urine".

http://news.google.com/news?sourcei...=1&hl=en&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=1&ct=title
 
  • #77
http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2008/08/30/3234/police_crackdown_rolling_out_the_raid_carpet

The buckets of "urine" were buckets of gray water collected from the drains of sinks and tubs. The gray water was used to flush toilets, to conserve water. The bricks were left over from unfinished work on the house (permit was expired). The house was being boarded up for "code violations" one of which was a door that was cracked during the police raid.
 
  • #78
turbo-1 said:
http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2008/08/30/3234/police_crackdown_rolling_out_the_raid_carpet

The buckets of "urine" were buckets of gray water collected from the drains of sinks and tubs. The gray water was used to flush toilets, to conserve water...
That's according to lawyer of the arrested parties.
 
  • #79
turbo-1 said:
http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2008/08/30/3234/police_crackdown_rolling_out_the_raid_carpet

The buckets of "urine" were buckets of gray water collected from the drains of sinks and tubs. The gray water was used to flush toilets, to conserve water. The bricks were left over from unfinished work on the house (permit was expired). The house was being boarded up for "code violations" one of which was a door that was cracked during the police raid.

mheslep said:
That's according to lawyer of the arrested parties.


...and, according to the article linked:

http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2008/08/30/3234/police_crackdown_rolling_out_the_raid_carpet

MinnPost said:
But according to attorney Nestor, the Bicking house had a "gray water system" in place. "[Police] found three five-gallon buckets of urine," Nestor said. "They conserve water by pouring the (recycled) gray water into the toilet."

That is three separate sentences. All of them could be true and probably are.

The groups had a gray water system in place.

The police found three five-gallon buckets of urine.

The conserve water by pouring the gray water into the toilet.



None of this says that there was gray water (instead of urine) in the buckets that the police found...and the lawyer (Nestor) knows this. That's likely why he so carefully chose his words.
 
  • #80
More gestapo stories.

6lyaMrS0hzk[/youtube] Follow up: [url]http://www.denverpost.com/newsheadlines/ci_9844803
It was Sen. John McCain's staff who asked security at the Denver Center for the Performing Arts to remove people holding protest signs at the venue — not U.S. Secret Service agents, who were not involved in Carol Kreck's ouster from the galleria.

A video of the incident circulating widely on the Internet shows a DCPA security guard saying that he was told by the Secret Service to remove Kreck, who was holding a paper sign that said "McCain = Bush."

But Thursday, after two days of being vilified by bloggers, letter writers and others, the Secret Service emphatically denied involvement.

"Contrary to some recent reporting, the Secret Service had no involvement in Ms. Kreck being removed from the area," said Malcolm D. Wiley Sr., spokesman for the Secret Service. "It was not done at our request or suggestion. Any assertion to the contrary is inaccurate and inconsistent with our established policies and procedures."

That prompted the DCPA to re-examine the reasons its guard sought to have Kreck removed.

"A representative of Senator John McCain's staff respectfully asked that the venue for its July 7 Town Hall Meeting, The Denver Center for the Performing Arts, not allow persons to display signage within the Arts Complex," DCPA officials said in a statement.
 

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