Is prostitution a form of modern day slavery?

[Entropy]

Very cute. You do know what to say, and you have just said it.

What are getting at? I implied that I think prostitution is immoral and if you think it is moral I can't fathom your thought process. Whats wrong with that?

If you think that prosititution is immoral, you certainly have the right to your opinion, and your opinion is a valid one. If you bluster about how we should recognize how obvious it is that your opinion should be our opinion, then you are just sounding like a fool.

When did I say you should recognize how obvious it is? I implied it was blindly obvious to me. Nothing in my post implies anything negative against people who don't see it as obvious.

Next time you pretend that you do not know what to say, how about saying nothing?

How about next time you read people posts a little more clearly before you go off attacking people?

 

[Artman]

Do you consider that your opinion that prostitution is immoral is subjective, such that other people should be free to hold any opinion that they wish on the morality of prostitution, or do you believe that your opinion othat prostitution is immoral is objective, such that people who disagree with you are wrong and should learn to believe as rightly as you do?

The issue is certainly subjective. I try not to impose my moral standards on anyone. I know a lot of what I do is not up to the standards of others.

Although I consider myself a Christian, many of my thoughts would be considered heretical by some of the more conservative churchs.

 

[Saint]

No one would like his own wife/daughter/sister/mother to be prostitute, this simply points out that prostitution is bad!

 

[Moonbear]

Street hos are the most accessible and common.

You claim to have only seen one in your life; they don't sound that accessible and common. You just don't know where to look (reasonable since it's clear that you aren't interested in looking).

No, of course not. It's dead obvious that prostitution is immoral. And if asked in real life, everyone here would agree. Of course, on the internet, people are vastly different.

That's blatantly untrue. I would give you the exact same answers in real life as I would here. But, in real life, I probably wouldn't try to be as restrained with my tone and word-choice.

 

[Gokul43201]

<I sense a lock-down>[/color]

 

[Dagenais]

You claim to have only seen one in your life; they don't sound that accessible and common.

In Vancouver. Stop manipulating what I say.

 

[cragwolf]

I respect your opinions, Artman. Food for thought.

 

[Moonbear]

In Vancouver. Stop manipulating what I say.

Especially in Vancouver! I was actually surprised to see that Canadian law actually allows anyone over the age of 14 to sell sexual services, not even 18 at the legal limit! Though they do have a funny catch-22. It's not legal to buy sexual services from anyone under 18.

http://www.discovervancouver.com/GVB/prostute.asp

http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/issues/prostitution_residential.html

The second link explains why you don't see them out on the street. It is legal for prostitutes to operate out of their residences, but not to solicit on the street.

 

[Jin314159]

No one would like his own wife/daughter/sister/mother to be prostitute, this simply points out that prostitution is bad!

[irrelevant random comment that just sounds cool] Don't hate tha playa. Hate tha game. [/irrelevant random comment that just sounds cool]

 

[Artman]

I respect your opinions, Artman. Food for thought.

Thank you cragwolf. I respect your opinions as well, they are well thought out and well presented.

 

[Artman]

Since your post missed some crucial words in order to be a rational statement, I have inserted them for you

Rational outlook on prostitution:
A prostitute provides the service of physical pleasure&release for a paying customer.
In my opinion, it is quite nice of them to be willing to provide such a service for those in need of it.
There is nothing inherently reprehensible about prostitution.

A lot of this question of morality hinges on the participants. Are they married? Are they healthy?

If they are married, they are breaking vows. If they are not healthy (AIDS, or some other STD) they are possibly endangering the life of the other.

What do you think? Is prostitution still moral under these conditions?

 

[arildno]

True enough; but these are particulars which cannot determine the moral value of a given prostitution act in the general case (they are modifiers).

Basically, you bring up issues which are by no means necessarily combined with prostitution, and seem to think those moral issues are necessarily relevant in your evaluation of prostitution.

 

[Zantra]

Is prostitution illegal? in most places in the world, no doubt. Does it run rampant in many parts of the world? Absolutely. Immorality is a subjective word, which means it's opinion based. However, consider this for a moment:

Every day around the world countless millions of people go on "dates". The guys take the girl out to the movies, to dinner, to plays, to concerts, etc.. And the majority of the time who pays? The guy. This is by design, and how society works. What is the goal of the guy? In most cases, sex. Are there exceptions to the rule? absolutely. But when you're talking about a first date, it's sex. We may use euphamisms like " getting to know each other" but goal is one and the same. Is this not a form of prostitution in the literal sense ? Each time a guy buys dinner, pays for the movie, pays for drinks, pays for concert tickets, is he not hoping for sex? Now before the women and religious fanatics jump all over me, let me preface by saying that I'm only illustrating a point, not make a statement. Society walks a fine line of morality. If you took at prostitute to dinner instead of handing her the 50 bucks you would have given her, does that now make her a "date"?

Now, not every woman is just trying to get a free meal and a movie, just like every guy's goal isn't to get sex(ok some guys). My point is that you can easily blur the line between illegal sex act and courting ritual by simply changing your viewpoint or the method of payment. Personally, I feel it's a matter of choice. Women CHOOSE to be prostitutes. They CHOOSE to have sex for money. It's not a forced act. And it all goes to the deeper, darker side of humanity- our base insticts and appetites. It's supply and demand. There's a demand for sex, and since some men can't get that demand filled by regular means, they choose prostitution.

Let me ask you this-if a woman just gave sex to men freely with no demand for any form of payment other than the act itsself, would she still be considered immoral? Women have the same needs as men. Women have casual sex all the time, and they are deemed "liberated". But if you add money into the equation, she's suddenly a "whore". It's inferred that a prostitute receives no recipricol gratification for the act, and thus it's reduced to a business transaction. So does that mean if that if she did receive some sort of gratification from the act, that it can be no longer considered prostitution?

Funny how we twist things to suit our own views.

And for the record, I've never seen a prostitute in person.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

I don't agree with taking someone out and then having sex with them immediately afterwards. I think relationships and the potential of symbiotic joinings should over-power lust. People should get to know and like each other first. Maybe that doesn't seem like the most logical thing to most but I feel it is. If we can take the potential of relationships to create more long term happiness for the world, it would be a great accomplishment.

 

[Zantra]

So based on your views (which we can assume is the majority viewpoint of the conservatives in this thread) when can safely say you're not a supporter of casual sex, and you're entitled to your view. And let's assume the moral majority believe casual sex to be immoral. However, should we make casual sex illegal, or is it still freedom of choice? How would the country react if a law was proposed to ban sex on a first date(we'll stay away from the logistics of enforcement for now- it's just going to my point). There are many who want the choice of that right. An argument could be made that it is possible to have a "connection" on a first date.

This is a ripple effect that the conservatives in the country started. It goes to gay rights, to abortion, to religion in school. It's a cascading affect. What it comes down to is that conservates are not tolerant of ANY view but their own. Coming from a family of conservatives, I speak from experience. It's their way or the highway, and there's only on possible right way: their way.

So the question comes up: where do you draw the line? Where do you decide that freedom of choice can be overriden by the rights of others, because it affects other people? If prostitution is a victimless crime, and it doesn't affect other people, It's technically a violation of our rights. However, the bible thumpers would have you believe otherwise, and so it's illegal. I think when someone else's moral views enchroach upon another person's lifestyle choices, it defeats the purpose of freedom. But that's my view

 

[Nooac]

slander is a FALSE charge
so true facts cannot be slander

and if a group has a true history of immoral acts
in my oppinon that shows their true nature far better then
all their moral BS

watch what they do, before following what they say
or as JC said it " actions not words "

ray b, I know what slander is; my original statement stands. Do you know what ad hominem means?

 

[Nooac]

When YOU consider these factors, it seems apparent to ME...

How pedantic of you. I guess I'm lucky I did not use a preposition to end my sentence with.

 

[Saint]

case close, conclusion is Prostitution is Bad.

 

[Gokul43201]

case close, conclusion is Prostitution is Bad.

Hooray ! Can we close this thread now ?

 

[Artman]

case close, conclusion is Prostitution is Bad.

For me and for you it is bad. I have listed several reasons why I think it is bad, as you have.

Let me ask you something, and this is where the dilema is for me, what if a young woman gets trapped into prostitution. Say she is an uneducated runaway. She hates the business, but her pimp keeps her in it. She is afraid to leave and unable to quit. Is she immoral? The pimp is -- I don't even find this point debateable -- but is the prostitute?

Morality has a lot to do with the situation. Killing for most people is immoral, was killing Hitler?

 

[Math Is Hard]

Hooray ! Can we close this thread now ?

I agree. This topic is getting weary. :zzz:

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Zanta: I don't think we will should go around banning sexual freedom.

However I believe by exploiting sexuality the way society does, pleasure that could be gained from relationships is lost. Basically the current situation gains the world pleasure but denies it a pleasure I believe to be even greater.

People seem to be quick to lean towards occasional pleasure rather than look and seek fufillment. I often look at society as a group of children. If you put some children in a room and put in a video game and two games. One game is easy and fun immediately while the other is said to be more enjoyable, but hard to get used to.

Most kids would probably go for the quick fix. By putting prostitutions on the street avaliable for use I believe people are being deprived of a higher enjoyment.

Most people aren't extremely good at doing the most moral thing. It's often hard for the strongest people to do the best thing. By taking away the knife people are less likely to get stabbed. Society doesn't evolve and learn as well as an optomistic person would like. I believe limits need to be set.

I'm not trying to press my beliefs on anyone. I just enjoy discussing issues.

 

[Dagenais]

The pimp is -- I don't even find this point debateable -- but is the prostitute?

In what way is the pimp keeping her in it? You've got to be more specific.

I believe that Hitler killed himself?

 

[Prometheus]

In what way is the pimp keeping her in it? You've got to be more specific.

"You've got to..." A very polite way for you to ask for more information.

Do you seriously not know how a pimp might force a girl into prostitution, or do you just wonder if others know?

 

[Moonbear]

In what way is the pimp keeping her in it? You've got to be more specific.

Does it matter exactly how? There is more than one way. In that case, the pimp is forcing the prostitute to do something against her will, so, yes, the pimp is immoral. The prostitute is not consenting. In this case, it becomes rape. I have less of a question of the morality of the prostitute in this case (she is given no choice, so is a victim) as to that of the john, who is essentially the rapist. Does it matter that he doesn't know she is not consenting? Is he guilty of rape, or another victim of the pimp?

 

[Zantra]

Zanta: I don't think we will should go around banning sexual freedom.

However I believe by exploiting sexuality the way society does, pleasure that could be gained from relationships is lost. Basically the current situation gains the world pleasure but denies it a pleasure I believe to be even greater.

People seem to be quick to lean towards occasional pleasure rather than look and seek fufillment. I often look at society as a group of children. If you put some children in a room and put in a video game and two games. One game is easy and fun immediately while the other is said to be more enjoyable, but hard to get used to.

Most kids would probably go for the quick fix. By putting prostitutions on the street avaliable for use I believe people are being deprived of a higher enjoyment.

Most people aren't extremely good at doing the most moral thing. It's often hard for the strongest people to do the best thing. By taking away the knife people are less likely to get stabbed. Society doesn't evolve and learn as well as an optimistic person would like. I believe limits need to be set.

I'm not trying to press my beliefs on anyone. I just enjoy discussing issues.

While traditional relationships work for the majority of people, for some it does not. I won't go into the various reasons guys use prostitutes. They all have their reasons I'm sure. But obviously there's a need or there wouldn't be any prostitution to begin with. Personally, I've never been with one, nor do I personally know anyone who has. But I still recognize that it's a business and They are filling a need which doesn't affect anyone outside of the 2 people involved, who are both consenting adults. Freedom of choice.

To stay with the video game analogy, for some men they'd rather play a quick game of pac man because they don't have time for a long drawn out game like final fantasy. They don't have time to sit and develop a relationship and all that goes with it. They just want to satisfy their physical need and that's it. Inferring that they don't know how to have a proper relationship, or that they won't develop emotionally is a big generalizing stretch. Maybe it's the guy's bachelor party. Maybe he's between relationships and doesn't want to become entagled with someone. There are many valid reasons for doing it. Everyone who uses a prostitute isn't the dreg of society-just ask Heidi Fliece(sp?)

 

[Dagenais]

Does it matter exactly how?

Yes, of course!

There is more than one way.

That is why it matters!

Is he guilty of rape, or another victim of the pimp?

Is the pimp the rapist? Doesn't he have to technically have intercourse with the girl?

So, he's guilty of being a pimp - not a rapist.

 

[Artman]

In what way is the pimp keeping her in it? You've got to be more specific.

I believe that Hitler killed himself?

Yeah, I think you're right about Hitler, it was probably the most moral thing he ever did.

I said that she is afraid to leave, this implies threat of violence. As others have said, she is not willing, he is keeping her in the business, so this is involuntary servitude (slavery). in the USA it is not only illegal, but unconstitutional. Since she dislikes the business and is an unwilling particiapant in the sex act, the pimp is also guilty of accessory to rape because he is aware that a rape is taking place and is not making any attempt to stop it.