Is prostitution a form of modern day slavery?

[Prometheus]

I think prostitution is immoral. If you don't see this as blindly obvious, I don't know what to say.

Very cute. You do know what to say, and you have just said it.

If you think that prosititution is immoral, you certainly have the right to your opinion, and your opinion is a valid one. If you bluster about how we should recognize how obvious it is that your opinion should be our opinion, then you are just sounding like a fool.

Next time you pretend that you do not know what to say, how about saying nothing?

 

[humanino]

So, you do have a cruel streak in you after all. Saint has brought it out of you. Look at the evil that he has wrought.

I never pretended I am all good. God is both Good and Evil, if God is to be everything :surprise:
Ooops, I might not be God. That would imply I could be only good.

 

[Prometheus]

I never pretended I am all good. God is both Good and Evil, if God is to be everything :surprise:
Ooops, I might not be God. That would imply I could be only good.

I would not dare to attempt to refute your logic.

 

[Saint]

I'd hardly consider their profession a lazy one. First of all, they aren't looking for handouts, they ARE working

What kind of Work?
Tell me, if your father told you he sought prostitutes before marriage and also after marriage, what do you feel about him?

 

[Saint]

please don't attack me personally, stick to the topic I brought up.

 

[Gokul43201]

The art of non sequitur is really being honed over here, wot ?

 

[Jin314159]

Whore not, lest we be pimped. - Gokul 6:9

roflmao!

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Your still entitled to think prostitution is immoral Saint. It's just how you word things. It seems to get people to gang up on you.

I still think prostitution is immoral. I think that logically the world should become more old-fashioned in its beliefs towards relationships. By decreasing the overwhelming mass of sexuality and changing the world into a more spiritual atmosphere I believe we would be better off. The goal in mind would be to create an logical sanctity of relationships using things that are available.

I believe that the world needs to strive towards a moral standard that creates the most amount of pleasure in comparison to the least amount of pain. By creating a sacred tradition we can help fill the lack of human pride and general fulfillment of society rather than continuing on a path of hollow sexuality.

I base my morals on logic of course. I believe the true logic lies in taking in the consideration of human emotion and the environment; rationalizing.

Take language for an example. Words are logically just words. It is also logical to view them for what they mean. In the name of effeciency they work to help create pleasure for the benefit of the human race.

The tradition of creating a valued less-sexual world can bring forth an increase in pleasure. Spiritual enjoyment that is satiable rather than the temporary nature of sexuality.

Prostitution in general hampers my ideals. However in certain instances it could result in conforming with my unseen ideal of a pleasure/pain ratio. Therefore; I do not condemn every instance. There are acceptions to the rule. This would create reasoning enough to say that you shouldn't automatically judge a prostitute for their profession.

I hope I explained myself well enough. I didn't mean to offend or confuse anyone. If I did, I apologize.

 

[Dagenais]

For those who are out on the streets, they sure have a harder life than most who head to a cozy office during the day and push around papers on a desk. Try standing outside on a cold, winter day wearing a miniskirt.

They shouldn't be wearing miniskirts of any kind. Most of them are extremely unattractive.

Prostitution, in my opinion, is immoral and bad. Or why do women get offended when you call them one? Because it's not a good thing.

If you have to write posts after posts attempting to justify that being a prostitute is moral - then it probably isn't, or you wouldn't have to be doing so. You don't have to convince people that being an Engineer is moral.

 

[Math Is Hard]

You don't have to convince people that being an Engineer is moral.

well...I dunno. God wasn't too pleased about that Tower of Babel incident.

 

[Moonbear]

Prostitution, in my opinion, is immoral and bad. Or why do women get offended when you call them one? Because it's not a good thing.

Not because prostitution is necessarily a bad thing, but because when someone calls them one, it is intended as a bad thing.

If you have to write posts after posts attempting to justify that being a prostitute is moral - then it probably isn't, or you wouldn't have to be doing so. You don't have to convince people that being an Engineer is moral.

Then the same should be true if you have to write post after post attempting to justify that it is immoral. Again, morality is your own personal view. If you see it as immoral, fine, steer clear of it. Saint just repeatedly posts questions to a discussion forum, but refuses to actually discuss the topic. Instead, he just tells us what he thinks we should believe. He's more than welcome to tell us what he believes or thinks, but he is not welcome to tell me what I should think, at least not without a very convincing argument.

I will also point out that I'm not arguing that prostitution is moral. I don't think that to go out and live a good life, everyone needs to be a prostitute. I'm just saying I don't think it's immoral. It's a profession, nothing more. Morality lies at the individual level.

 

[Dagenais]

Not because prostitution is necessarily a bad thing, but because when someone calls them one, it is intended as a bad thing.

Probably because it is a bad thing.

Would you be happy if you found out your mother was a prostitute? If you angrily answered, "NO you jerk, what are you implying!?", then you're normal, plus, you realize that prostitution is a no-no.

"You" as in general public, since you already said you aren't arguing this.

Then the same should be true if you have to write post after post attempting to justify that it is immoral.

A lot have agreed that it is immoral, then stopped there. It's just a couple of people that keep on pressing the point that there is nothing wrong with it and this causes argument.

It's like how poker players try to convince the IOC and everyone else that poker should be an Olympic Sport. They start petitions, buy commercial times and compare themselves to synchronize swimming. If poker was really a sport, they wouldn't have to try so hard to convince everyone. It would have automatically been one along with basketball, wrestling, track. Instead, they are trying to convince us of something that isn't true.

Again, morality is your own personal view

You do realize that there is a such thing as bad or no moral at all. That sort of thing can land you in jail.

There are sets of basic moral that general society accepts. The problem with your country is that some refuse to realize this, thus, you have problems.

He's more than welcome to tell us what he believes or thinks, but he is not welcome to tell me what I should think, at least not without a very convincing argument.

If you don't like the way he posts, why are you replying to his thread (which is surprisingly popular). Why don't you just add him to your ignore list if you don't appreciate his comments?

I don't think that to go out and live a good life, everyone needs to be a prostitute.

I would hope not.

I'm just saying I don't think it's immoral. It's a profession, nothing more. Morality lies at the individual level.

So, you are arguing that it is moral, contrary to what you said before (I reply as I read).

I use to believe this - since its just another industry that doesn't harm anyone else besides the 'buyer' and 'seller'. Then I realized what these people were really selling. Again, something taken way too lightly in your country.

 

[cragwolf]

I use to believe this - since its just another industry that doesn't harm anyone else besides the 'buyer' and 'seller'. Then I realized what these people were really selling.

What are they selling? What does a bricklayer sell? What does a tech support worker sell? What's the difference?

 

[Prometheus]

Again, something taken way too lightly in your country.

Unlike your country, where no one at all recognizes prostitution as moral, and no one makes use of them.

I use to believe this - since its just another industry that doesn't harm anyone else besides the 'buyer' and 'seller'.

Oh, great. The old "I used to think like you" speech.

Would you be happy if you found out your mother was a prostitute? If you angrily answered, "NO you jerk, what are you implying!?", then you're normal, plus, you realize that prostitution is a no-no.

Not only is this ridiculous example irrelevant to the question at hand, but I contend that no one would EVER answer as you said under the conditions that you provided. Your "answer" is a non-sequitur, as is your entire argument, in my opinion.

A lot have agreed that it is immoral, then stopped there. It's just a couple of people that keep on pressing the point that there is nothing wrong with it and this causes argument.

Surprise. You have the situation reversed. Its just a couple of people like you who keep pressing their morality on every one else.

It's like how poker players try to convince the IOC and everyone else that poker should be an Olympic Sport. They start petitions, buy commercial times and compare themselves to synchronize swimming. If poker was really a sport, they wouldn't have to try so hard to convince everyone. It would have automatically been one along with basketball, wrestling, track. Instead, they are trying to convince us of something that isn't true.

You call this an example? OK, why not read it to understand what everyone thinks of your "argument".

 

[Dagenais]

Unlike your country, where no one at all recognizes prostitution as moral, and no one makes use of them.

A lot less than in the United States. I've lived in British Columbia for almost a decade, and I've seen one street whore. And I've frequented the streets of Vancouver at night.

Not only is this ridiculous example irrelevant to the question at hand

It's very relevant. The problem with you is that anything that contradicts whatever point you don't have is "irrelevant". It makes it so pathetic replying to you.

Its just a couple of people like you who keep pressing their morality on every one else.

No, not really. I said, "In my opinion". Stop implying things that I never said, again, this makes writing to you a complete waste of time.

 

[Saint]

nobody will be proud if his/her mother is a whore.
this simply implies that being a whore is ashamed! And therefore immoral. Nothing moral is to be ashamed of.

 

[check]

But that doesn't mean that everything there is to be ashamed of is immoral.

 

[Saint]

protitution is inherently/obviously/absolutely a shame, disgrace, humiliation, and therefore immoral.

 

[check]

You do realize that not everybody shares the same set of morals, don't you? You are not the morality judge.

 

[Gokul43201]

Check, I suggest you rest those fingers...this thread is going nowhere !

 

[Prometheus]

And I've frequented the streets of Vancouver at night.

In that case, why not keep your pathetic responses to yourself, and go frequent the streets at night to check for prostitutes.

 

[Prometheus]

protitution is inherently/obviously/absolutely a shame, disgrace, humiliation, and therefore immoral.

Saint is inherently/obviously/absolutely a shame, disgrace, humiliation, and therefore immoral.

 

[Evo]

Let's try to keep this about the topic and not get personal.

 

[Gokul43201]

Let's try to keep this about the topic and not get personal.

I agree with the sentiment of this warning. But the nature of the original (and successive) posts seems to say that those who disagree with Saint's opinion are automatically deemed immoral. The thread itself is all about 'getting personal'.

Just my opinion...

 

[Moonbear]

A lot less than in the United States. I've lived in British Columbia for almost a decade, and I've seen one street whore. And I've frequented the streets of Vancouver at night.

I take it you've never been to Toronto then? It's also a pretty naive view that all prostitutes are out walking the streets.

And, no, I'm not saying it's moral, or immoral. I see it as something that is morally neutral.

 

[arildno]

The moral immaturity of individuals like dagenais and saint is, unfortunately, very common among religious people. Having no ability to be participants in a rational or reasoned discussion of anything (their scriptural outlook is antithetical to reason), they resort to flinging catch-words and abuse at anyone who happens to disagree with them.

The real culprit, however, is the particular brand of religion which happens to keep them shackled and strait-jacketed into a very primitive existence form, bordering on non-humanity.
Whether to pity or be disgusted with such malfunctionals is hard to tell; regarding them as worthy of the epithet "rational adults" is out of the question.

 

[Artman]

The moral immaturity of individuals like dagenais and saint is, unfortunately, very common among religious people. Having no ability to be participants in a rational or reasoned discussion of anything (their scriptural outlook is antithetical to reason), they resort to flinging catch-words and abuse at anyone who happens to disagree with them.

This is unsubstantiated opinion, presented as fact.

The real culprit, however, is the particular brand of religion which happens to keep them shackled and strait-jacketed into a very primitive existence form, bordering on non-humanity.

Again, this is unsubstantiated opinion, presented as fact.

Let's look at prostitution rationally then. First of all, prostitution is illegal in much of the world, which means the participants are criminals; to cover their involvement they are also liars, listing their profession as exotic dancer, massage therapist, escorts, etc.; and because it is an unregulated industry it forces them to hide their activities in sordid environments (cheap hotels, rooms rented by the hour, backallies, cars, truckstops), and work under pressure to avoid detection. Their profession spreads disease; their profession causes homes to breakup; their profession works on human frailties, to extract money by tempting individual urges and weaknesses (legally prostitution is considered a vice).

Let's not judge the participants, but is this really the description of a moral activity?

 

[cragwolf]

Let's look at prostitution rationally then. First of all, prostitution is illegal in much of the world, which means the participants are criminals; to cover their involvement they are also liars, listing their profession as exotic dancer, massage therapist, escorts, etc.; and because it is an unregulated industry it forces them to hide their activities in sordid environments (cheap hotels, rooms rented by the hour, backallies, cars, truckstops), and work under pressure to avoid detection.

First of all, prostitution is legal in many parts of the world, which means the participants aren't criminals, they're not liars, and the industry is regulated. So the crucial difference here is the legality of the act. If you made the consumption of alcohol illegal, then you would also get liars, sordidness, and surreptitiousness. Is the consumption of alcohol immoral?

Their profession spreads disease...

Only if it is unregulated or not properly regulated. Many products would have dangerous health effects if their manufacture and distribution was not properly regulated.

...their profession causes homes to breakup

No, the married man (or woman) who chooses to obtain these services causes homes to be broken up. It's not the axe, but the axe-murderer we throw into jail.

their profession works on human frailties, to extract money by tempting individual urges and weaknesses.

Congratulations, you have just discovered what consumerism and capitalism is based on. Buying and eating chocolate is immoral!

Let's not judge the participants, but is this really the description of a moral activity?

Well, this is the question, but you really ought to be consistent when you judge prostitution to be immoral. If prostitution is immoral then so is any service that involves the renting of a body and/or mind (i.e. every job in existence!) Or if you're not going to be consistent, then explain why.

 

[aychamo]

protitution is inherently/obviously/absolutely a shame, disgrace, humiliation, and therefore immoral.

My mother and my grandmother are prostitutes and I am very proud of them. Their prostitution puts clothes on my back and food on my table.

 

[arildno]

Let's look at prostitution rationally then. First of all, prostitution is illegal in much of the world, which means the participants are BRANDED AS criminals; to cover their involvement they are also liars, listing their profession as exotic dancer, massage therapist, escorts, etc.; and because it is an unregulated AND BRANDED industry it forces them to hide their activities in sordid environments (cheap hotels, rooms rented by the hour, backallies, cars, truckstops), and work under pressure to avoid detection.

Since your post missed some crucial words in order to be a rational statement, I have inserted them for you

Rational outlook on prostitution:
A prostitute provides the service of physical pleasure&release for a paying customer.
In my opinion, it is quite nice of them to be willing to provide such a service for those in need of it.
There is nothing inherently reprehensible about prostitution.

 

[Artman]

First of all, prostitution is legal in many parts of the world, which means the participants aren't criminals, they're not liars, and the industry is regulated. So the crucial difference here is the legality of the act.

This is my opinion on the subject. Prostitution, as with other vices, is considered by many a victimless crime, which opens it for consideration for legalization. Legalizing vices is not done because the activity is desirable, or moral, but because it can be better regulated when legal.

If you made the consumption of alcohol illegal, then you would also get liars, sordidness, and surreptitiousness. Is the consumption of alcohol immoral?

alcohol abuse
This actually supports my previous statement. Just because something has been legalized does not make it right. Prohibition just doesn't work.
"Alcohol abuse and its related problems cost society many billions of dollars each year"

Only if it is unregulated or not properly regulated. Many products would have dangerous health effects if their manufacture and distribution was not properly regulated.

Gosh, even regulation doesn't stop alcohol abuse from costing billions of dollars a year.

Why don't you ask the spouse of an alcoholic how moral their spouse's drinking problem is. (Ask them after they drank away the rent money.)

No, the married man (or woman) who chooses to obtain these services causes homes to be broken up. It's not the axe, but the axe-murderer we throw into jail.

Yeah, the person shooting the gun not the gun. Still doesn't make the gun right.

Congratulations, you have just discovered what consumerism and capitalism is based on. Buying and eating chocolate is immoral!

I love chocolate. I also have low blood sugar, a tendency to overindulge in candy, and a family history of diabetes. Perhaps for me it should be immoral.

Well, this is the question, but you really ought to be consistent when you judge prostitution to be immoral. If prostitution is immoral then so is any service that involves the renting of a body and/or mind (i.e. every job in existence!) Or if you're not going to be consistent, then explain why.

This is actually a good argument. Obviously this is a moral dilemma for some people (just look at the number of responses here). I still contend that In countries and areas where the business is illegal, I think that it is immoral a well.

 

[Artman]

My mother and my grandmother are prostitutes and I am very proud of them. Their prostitution puts clothes on my back and food on my table.

All question of morallity aside. I am glad that you are proud of your family.

I am curious though, aren't you also worried about them? Prostitution is a dangerous line of work. To be so vulnerable around strangers. I imagine it takes a brave woman.

 

[Prometheus]

I still contend that In countries and areas where the business is illegal, I think that it is immoral a well.

Do you consider that your opinion that prostitution is immoral is subjective, such that other people should be free to hold any opinion that they wish on the morality of prostitution, or do you believe that your opinion othat prostitution is immoral is objective, such that people who disagree with you are wrong and should learn to believe as rightly as you do?

 

[humanino]

"Alcohol abuse and its related problems cost society many billions of dollars each year"


Gosh, even regulation doesn't stop alcohol abuse from costing billions of dollars a year.

Alcohol brings a lot of money too. In France we export a lot of wine

 

[arildno]

This is unsubstantiated opinion, presented as fact.

Actually, it is not, since by following the "Word of God", scripturally minded Christians are obliged from time to time to commit murder, amongst other atrocities ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live")
Scripturally minded Christians deserve no respect whatsoever for their perverted morality view.

 

[Dagenais]

In that case, why not keep your pathetic responses to yourself

I called your posts pathetic, then using the same insult against me is what a 3rd grader would do. Unless you can come up with something better than a, "I know you are but what am I?" reply, stop talking to me.

It's also a pretty naive view that all prostitutes are out walking the streets.

Street hos are the most accessible and common.

The moral immaturity of individuals like dagenais and saint is, unfortunately, very common among religious peop

Stop assuming things.

Let's not judge the participants, but is this really the description of a moral activity?

No, of course not. It's dead obvious that prostitution is immoral. And if asked in real life, everyone here would agree. Of course, on the internet, people are vastly different.

My mother and my grandmother are prostitutes and I am very proud of them

An example of people being different on the internet than in real life. They are a lot ruder and say a lot of things they'd never say IRL.

First-off, your parents are not prostitutes.

He would have never even thought of saying that in real life to a group of people, because that would be embarrassing and disrespectful. He's been disrespectful to the point of banning at other forums. I'm sure you would have the bravery to say that during your job/college interviews too, that selling sex is so moral you would be proud if your mother did it? So don't disrespect us and say it in front of us just because we aren't right in front of you.

 

[humanino]

Dagenais I don't know you, but you could please show a little more respect. Please re-read the words you use in your last paragraph. Think about the person that is sharing facts about his family with you, and the way you reply to that.

 

[Dagenais]

Dagenais I don't know you, but you could please show a little more respect. Please re-read the words you use in your last paragraph. Think about the person that is sharing facts about his family with you, and the way you reply to that.

His parents aren't prostitutes. I've frequented forums he's been at, and he's stirred up trouble to the point of banning before. He'll say just about anything to prove his point.

I am not assuming anything about you dagenais

Yes you are. Especially since your assumption about me was incorrect.

You didn't even assume based on facts. Quebec is known for its population of Roman Catholics, not protestant Christians. At least try to assume correctly.

which is not obvious from your own posts.

Uh huh...

You are a moral and intellectual failure.

Intellectual failures are those trying to justify selling sex and exploitation of women as an ethical business.

Moral failures are accusing and putting the people that don't agree with you into religious groups in which you obviously look down upon.

they resort to flinging catch-words and abuse at anyone who happens to disagree with them.

So an example would be...you?

 

[arildno]

I am not assuming anything about you dagenais which is not obvious from your own posts. You are a moral and intellectual failure.

 

[humanino]

I wish this discussion could go somewhere. Several persons tried to bring facts and thoughts related to the discussion, other only seem to display their own conceptions without even reading other posts. Make sure to realize it is just a discussion : no true forbideness of prostitution will come out of it !

Apparently it is doomed to closure by moderators. This is sad.

 

[Entropy]

Very cute. You do know what to say, and you have just said it.

What are getting at? I implied that I think prostitution is immoral and if you think it is moral I can't fathom your thought process. Whats wrong with that?

If you think that prosititution is immoral, you certainly have the right to your opinion, and your opinion is a valid one. If you bluster about how we should recognize how obvious it is that your opinion should be our opinion, then you are just sounding like a fool.

When did I say you should recognize how obvious it is? I implied it was blindly obvious to me. Nothing in my post implies anything negative against people who don't see it as obvious.

Next time you pretend that you do not know what to say, how about saying nothing?

How about next time you read people posts a little more clearly before you go off attacking people?

 

[Artman]

Do you consider that your opinion that prostitution is immoral is subjective, such that other people should be free to hold any opinion that they wish on the morality of prostitution, or do you believe that your opinion othat prostitution is immoral is objective, such that people who disagree with you are wrong and should learn to believe as rightly as you do?

The issue is certainly subjective. I try not to impose my moral standards on anyone. I know a lot of what I do is not up to the standards of others.

Although I consider myself a Christian, many of my thoughts would be considered heretical by some of the more conservative churchs.

 

[Saint]

No one would like his own wife/daughter/sister/mother to be prostitute, this simply points out that prostitution is bad!

 

[Moonbear]

Street hos are the most accessible and common.

You claim to have only seen one in your life; they don't sound that accessible and common. You just don't know where to look (reasonable since it's clear that you aren't interested in looking).

No, of course not. It's dead obvious that prostitution is immoral. And if asked in real life, everyone here would agree. Of course, on the internet, people are vastly different.

That's blatantly untrue. I would give you the exact same answers in real life as I would here. But, in real life, I probably wouldn't try to be as restrained with my tone and word-choice.

 

[Gokul43201]

<I sense a lock-down>[/color]

 

[Dagenais]

You claim to have only seen one in your life; they don't sound that accessible and common.

In Vancouver. Stop manipulating what I say.

 

[cragwolf]

I respect your opinions, Artman. Food for thought.

 

[Moonbear]

In Vancouver. Stop manipulating what I say.

Especially in Vancouver! I was actually surprised to see that Canadian law actually allows anyone over the age of 14 to sell sexual services, not even 18 at the legal limit! Though they do have a funny catch-22. It's not legal to buy sexual services from anyone under 18.

http://www.discovervancouver.com/GVB/prostute.asp

http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/issues/prostitution_residential.html

The second link explains why you don't see them out on the street. It is legal for prostitutes to operate out of their residences, but not to solicit on the street.

 

[Jin314159]

No one would like his own wife/daughter/sister/mother to be prostitute, this simply points out that prostitution is bad!

[irrelevant random comment that just sounds cool] Don't hate tha playa. Hate tha game. [/irrelevant random comment that just sounds cool]

 

[Artman]

I respect your opinions, Artman. Food for thought.

Thank you cragwolf. I respect your opinions as well, they are well thought out and well presented.